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Message
re: Making big money in finance?
Posted on 5/24/19 at 12:40 pm to businesssock
Posted on 5/24/19 at 12:40 pm to businesssock
quote:
I'll start by saying that my main goal right now is to work up to making true, F-you money in finance. However, I don't know how to get there, so I'm looking for advice on the experience I need to acquire and the hard skills I need to develop at work (or outside of it) in order to move my career toward that goal.
A bit on my background: My undergrad isn't in business or economics, so I don't have the traditional academic pedigree, but I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes. After undergrad, I got a JD, spent several years in law (not finance related), and then got an MBA (finance concentration). I earned both grad degrees from very good, but not elite, schools (both top 25). I've spent the last year since MBA graduation working full time as a financial analyst and doing some part time legal work as a side hustle.
So what do I do now? I don't mind working pathologically hard - I'm currently working a full time job and a part time job, do 45 minutes of programming self-study most mornings, and do 30-45 minutes of finance self-study most evenings. But finance is such a massive field that it's incredibly easy to flail about and waste hours learning things that won't actually generate a monetary return. Knowing this, I'm looking for advice to make sure that I have a plan to reach my goal and am not simply working hard but stupidly.
Any advice from finance professionals on the proper next steps to groom myself for success would be much appreciated!
In addition to what everyone else has said. A back door into finance could be using your law degree to work at a law firm that either does 1) Corporate M&A/Securities 2) Corporate Bankruptcy OR the legal side of a banks credit department.
At this point it will be a major process of moving every 2 or 3 from job A to job B etc. to finally getting the job you want in finance.
Good luck.
This post was edited on 5/24/19 at 12:42 pm
0
Posted on 5/25/19 at 12:24 pm to barry
quote:
barry
Great post — to the point and unfiltered....someone who has either worked that track or knows a number of people that have gone the IB/PE route.
OP, I’ll sound like a jackass saying this, but the fact that you didn’t plan your career when you had 5 years of graduate schooling to do so tells me that you aren’t cut out for the level of competition it takes to get into high-level Finance roles. Take offense or take it as motivation...you’ve missed your best opportunities to break into the high profile finance gigs (which are already very difficult to land going to typical route) so you are going to have to catch a break and be overly prepared if you do get a shot.
You could also move towards personal finance and build a book. This is a way to “F you” money if you build your AUM.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:01 am to LSUTOM07
Unless he is starting the next big tech company could make way more than the programmers by going into finance.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:06 am to businesssock
How much is F you money for you?
The advisors in our firm make mid 6 figures and seem to have very flexible schedules and good work life balance. You could get a series 7 and go that route. Getting that license could also alleviate some of your issues with no experience.
If you are thinking big deals and sitting with 7 figures in your account after a few years almost have to go IB route. Be ready to work your arse off. It sounds like you are grinding it now but the guys I’ve dealt with in IB work 24 hours a day 7 days a week and don’t stop until the deal is closed. Then on to the next one.
The advisors in our firm make mid 6 figures and seem to have very flexible schedules and good work life balance. You could get a series 7 and go that route. Getting that license could also alleviate some of your issues with no experience.
If you are thinking big deals and sitting with 7 figures in your account after a few years almost have to go IB route. Be ready to work your arse off. It sounds like you are grinding it now but the guys I’ve dealt with in IB work 24 hours a day 7 days a week and don’t stop until the deal is closed. Then on to the next one.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:14 am to BamaAlum02
quote:
make way more than the programmers by going into finance.
I consider 7 figures a year F you money.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:18 am to LSUTOM07
I would too but that doesn’t change what I posted that you’ll generally make more in finance than programming unless you’re the CEO.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:33 am to businesssock
My $0.02.
IB is best suited for people to do at a young age or immediately after MBA as a launching pad into private equity. That may get eye rolls, but every single person I know who came from IB now works in PE (that said, I happen to deal with PE a lot, so this could be somewhat self-fulfilling from my perspective).
Remember, at the end of the day, the run of the mill finance and financial modeling becomes a commodity as you progress higher within high finance. Those able to differentiate themselves at higher levels tend to do so on the basis of relationships, salesmanship, structuring expertise and/or origination potential (i.e. rainmaking).
With the JD and MBA, I’d be looking to do something transactional with a large corporate firm (In-House Counsel, Corporate Development, Business Development, Risk/Analytics).
Even with the law degree and MBA, an IB isn’t going to be able to justify starting you any higher than Associate level unless your law background is highly transactional in nature. If you go to NYC or London, your peers will be a bunch of international academic outperformers trying to out-Excel each other with questionable actual business/operational understanding.
I’d skip IB at this point and either go the Corporate route (pay will be lower, but stress will be lower, security will be higher, time for side hustles will be higher), or try to get into PE even at an Associate level and use your past experience to differentiate yourself amongst younger peers. As mentioned, though, PE is not an easy field to get into.
IB is best suited for people to do at a young age or immediately after MBA as a launching pad into private equity. That may get eye rolls, but every single person I know who came from IB now works in PE (that said, I happen to deal with PE a lot, so this could be somewhat self-fulfilling from my perspective).
Remember, at the end of the day, the run of the mill finance and financial modeling becomes a commodity as you progress higher within high finance. Those able to differentiate themselves at higher levels tend to do so on the basis of relationships, salesmanship, structuring expertise and/or origination potential (i.e. rainmaking).
With the JD and MBA, I’d be looking to do something transactional with a large corporate firm (In-House Counsel, Corporate Development, Business Development, Risk/Analytics).
Even with the law degree and MBA, an IB isn’t going to be able to justify starting you any higher than Associate level unless your law background is highly transactional in nature. If you go to NYC or London, your peers will be a bunch of international academic outperformers trying to out-Excel each other with questionable actual business/operational understanding.
I’d skip IB at this point and either go the Corporate route (pay will be lower, but stress will be lower, security will be higher, time for side hustles will be higher), or try to get into PE even at an Associate level and use your past experience to differentiate yourself amongst younger peers. As mentioned, though, PE is not an easy field to get into.
This post was edited on 5/26/19 at 10:48 am
Posted on 5/26/19 at 11:01 am to businesssock
I work in IB
This is a shitty goal. People who come into IB with this intention burn out really quick.
Did you do IB recruiting while you were in school? Where did you intern during your summer? It's going to be really difficult to break into IB with your background so I will need more info.
It's not so much the hours that suck (I average 80-95/week), but it's the fact that I am constantly working and always on call. I don't make any plans anymore because I always end up canceling. All your friends are going to a concert? Dinner? bday party? LOL. Not to mention that whenever I go on vacation, I have my laptop with me and usually work the whole morning every day. O yea, and you'll have international clients who want to schedule conference calls at terrible times.
Weddings. Beach trips. Golf trips. etc. All get put on the backburner. IB is a highly competitive, client-driven, cutthroat industry where generations of kids with dreams of "F-you money" have been crushed and processed out.
quote:
I'll start by saying that my main goal right now is to work up to making true, F-you money in finance.
This is a shitty goal. People who come into IB with this intention burn out really quick.
quote:
A bit on my background: My undergrad isn't in business or economics, so I don't have the traditional academic pedigree, but I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes. After undergrad, I got a JD, spent several years in law (not finance related), and then got an MBA (finance concentration). I earned both grad degrees from very good, but not elite, schools (both top 25). I've spent the last year since MBA graduation working full time as a financial analyst and doing some part time legal work as a side hustle.
Did you do IB recruiting while you were in school? Where did you intern during your summer? It's going to be really difficult to break into IB with your background so I will need more info.
quote:
So what do I do now? I don't mind working pathologically hard - I'm currently working a full time job and a part time job, do 45 minutes of programming self-study most mornings, and do 30-45 minutes of finance self-study most evenings.
It's not so much the hours that suck (I average 80-95/week), but it's the fact that I am constantly working and always on call. I don't make any plans anymore because I always end up canceling. All your friends are going to a concert? Dinner? bday party? LOL. Not to mention that whenever I go on vacation, I have my laptop with me and usually work the whole morning every day. O yea, and you'll have international clients who want to schedule conference calls at terrible times.
Weddings. Beach trips. Golf trips. etc. All get put on the backburner. IB is a highly competitive, client-driven, cutthroat industry where generations of kids with dreams of "F-you money" have been crushed and processed out.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 11:09 am to businesssock
Why do you want to make f you money?
Your undergrad wasn’t fulfilling to you. Law wasn’t. Seems like the opportunities your MBA provided aren’t either.
You’ve gotten financial and career advice here, but I’m not sure if it’s the best life advice. Making a ton of money and being rich isn’t necessary for a fulfilling life.
Your undergrad wasn’t fulfilling to you. Law wasn’t. Seems like the opportunities your MBA provided aren’t either.
You’ve gotten financial and career advice here, but I’m not sure if it’s the best life advice. Making a ton of money and being rich isn’t necessary for a fulfilling life.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 6:33 pm to Azazello
quote:
making true, F-you money
quote:THIS! The guys I know that have been very successful in finance were mostly driven by the challenge or just raw competition. The money, of course, played a role - but it was not THE motivation.
This is a shitty goal. People who come into IB with this intention burn out really quick.
Posted on 5/26/19 at 7:31 pm to businesssock
I know quite a few people making 500K plus in retail brokerages. Their educations vary from BA's, engineering, finance, a couple of JD's and CPA's. The one common denominator in their success is they are all salespeople. They know how to close the sale and manage their clients' accounts effectively.
This post was edited on 5/26/19 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 5/26/19 at 10:38 pm to businesssock
With your background you need to focus on technology regulations and become and expert at it.
Technology will be more and more regulated and with a JD and MBA, you could capitalize.
Become the expert at what do do when a company has a data breach.
Become the legal expert concerning data storage and security.
Be the trusted counsel when dealing with new operating, accounting and customer service operating platforms.
Learn the accounting language when it come to internal controls and become a speaker at conferences and seminars.
IB is a roll of the dice - you may make it big........Or you can end up with anxiety, panic attacks and burnout. Life is too short for that shite.
Technology will be more and more regulated and with a JD and MBA, you could capitalize.
Become the expert at what do do when a company has a data breach.
Become the legal expert concerning data storage and security.
Be the trusted counsel when dealing with new operating, accounting and customer service operating platforms.
Learn the accounting language when it come to internal controls and become a speaker at conferences and seminars.
IB is a roll of the dice - you may make it big........Or you can end up with anxiety, panic attacks and burnout. Life is too short for that shite.
This post was edited on 5/26/19 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 5/27/19 at 6:03 am to KillTheGophers
quote:
With your background you need to focus on technology regulations and become and expert at it.
Technology will be more and more regulated and with a JD and MBA, you could capitalize.
Become the expert at what do do when a company has a data breach.
Become the legal expert concerning data storage and security.
Great advice. You are highly educated, now go make a niche for yourself with the skill set and advantages you already possess. Magical thinking about IB and big money are blinding you to the opportunities you already have.
Posted on 5/27/19 at 11:14 am to businesssock
solid analytical and quantitative background............you have said enough.
Posted on 5/28/19 at 9:40 pm to businesssock
quote:
I nevertheless have a solid analytical and quantitative background. In college, I took calculus 1&2, statistics, and a half dozen programming classes
That's like saying you are ready for the NBA because you were a solid JV player in HS
Not saying you don't have the aptitude but this doesn't define solid background
This post was edited on 5/28/19 at 9:45 pm
Posted on 5/29/19 at 3:02 pm to businesssock
Get your CFA and or work in FinTech. you can also make boss money in sales, but it is difficult and depending on the type of sales and who your clients are sometimes you are at the mercy of the markets. (bonds) Commodities arena can be lucrative too.
there are some small markets you can operate out of, too. Stephens for example is based out of little rock.
there are some small markets you can operate out of, too. Stephens for example is based out of little rock.
This post was edited on 5/29/19 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 5/29/19 at 3:57 pm to businesssock
quote:
In working in retail banking right now. I wouldn't mind jumping over to investment at some point, but I'm not sure how to get there.
Do not mean to burst your bubble, but its going to be incredibly hard if not impossible to get on with a IB unless its some small boutique, or you have a Petroleum Engineering degree and work for an O+G IB. IBs typically recruit analysts straight from Ivy League schools or MBAs from Ivy League schools. Goodluck though.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 5:01 pm to hubertcumberdale
quote:
quote:
In working in retail banking right now. I wouldn't mind jumping over to investment at some point, but I'm not sure how to get there.
Do not mean to burst your bubble, but its going to be incredibly hard if not impossible to get on with a IB unless its some small boutique, or you have a Petroleum Engineering degree and work for an O+G IB. IBs typically recruit analysts straight from Ivy League schools or MBAs from Ivy League schools. Goodluck though.
He’s right. You should probably set your sights more on getting to the private banking side of one of the larger banks.
Posted on 5/29/19 at 5:09 pm to businesssock
quote:
businesssock
Considering you just like to go to school with no plans OP, I'd skip the finance idea and go to dental school. I know of a guy that does very well in Mississippi that wants to sell his practice. You could have $10 mil by 65 with his plan.
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