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re: If your IRA chart looks like this how concerned are you?

Posted on 12/18/18 at 12:18 pm to
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18946 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 12:18 pm to
quote:


Capital Appreciation Fund A: OPTFX, large cap US growth stocks. $58.99 on Dec 20 2013; currently $51.36 today

Discovery Fund A: OPOCX, small cap US growth stocks. $78.71 on Dec 20 2013; currently $63.14 today.

Global Allocation Fund A: QVGIX, global allocation with short-to-medium term horizon that "seeks to achieve attractive total returns without taking undue risk." $17.16 on Dec 20 2013; currently $17.85 today.

Global Fund A: OPPAX, large cap US and foreign stock fund. $98.54 on Dec 20 2013; currently $74.35 today.

Global Strategic Income Fund A: OPSIX, global fixed income investments. $4.13 on Dec 20 2013; currently $3.61 today.

Limited-Term Bond Fund A: OUSGX, limited term US investment grade fixed income investments. $4.69 on Dec 20 2013; currently $4.43 today.


My word. OP: Has no one else noticed this at your workplace?
VTSAX Is up over 100% in this same stretch.
Posted by Omada
Member since Jun 2015
695 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 12:53 pm to
EDIT: As mentioned in the edit of my previous post, this post contained wrong information. I'm removing the bad info to avoid confusion for any future readers. Everyone is still free to point and laugh at my mistakes that were quoted by others, though.

Also, I didn't even think of looking at dividend yields on OP's funds earlier. Google says the current yields are:

OPTFX: .01%
OPOCX: 0%
QVGIX: .01%
OPPAX: 0.56%
OPSIX: 5.07%
OUSGX: 2.68%

And an addendum to my previous post. The net expense ratio for the funds:
OPTFX: 1.05% net expense ratio
OPOCX: 1.08% net expense ratio
QVGIX: 1.28% net expense ratio
OPPAX: 1.12% net expense ratio
OPSIX: 0.99% net expense ratio
OUSGX: 0.75% net expense ratio

OP, EDIT: research the funds a bit more and compare them to those of Vanguard and other providers if you would like the employer to switch. My info about returns was faulty and should not be used.
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 4:55 pm
Posted by Tarps99
Lafourche Parish
Member since Apr 2017
7459 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:14 pm to
Thanks for all your advice. I will be making a recommendation to a new provider. The big factor as to why no one noticed such poor performance is that I work for a small company and may have been one of only few employees under this plan moving forward.

Even with those results, I knew I something was not right with this mix of funds. I have even been taking some premature distributions. I know it is not smart when Uncle Sam takes his cut in taxes and an extra 10 percent. But with the employer match in the IRA some of this is like playing with house money. I still have a long time before retirement.
Posted by PearlJam
NotBeardEaves
Member since Aug 2014
13908 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

I have even been taking some premature distributions. I know it is not smart when Uncle Sam takes his cut in taxes and an extra 10 percent. But with the employer match in the IRA some of this is like playing with house money. I still have a long time before retirement.
Is this a troll?
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18946 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:18 pm to
quote:

I have even been taking some premature distributions


quote:

I still have a long time before retirement.


That ain't good!
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35402 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:33 pm to
quote:

Having just looked at the 5 year performance of those funds, OP's problem is that these Oppenheimer funds are awful. The high fees compared to the alternatives is just insult to injury.

The information below is the name of the funds he was invested in, the ticker, the type of investments the funds use, and the beginning and ending price of the funds over the past 5 years according to Google:

Capital Appreciation Fund A: OPTFX, large cap US growth stocks. $58.99 on Dec 20 2013; currently $51.36 today

Discovery Fund A: OPOCX, small cap US growth stocks. $78.71 on Dec 20 2013; currently $63.14 today.

Global Allocation Fund A: QVGIX, global allocation with short-to-medium term horizon that "seeks to achieve attractive total returns without taking undue risk." $17.16 on Dec 20 2013; currently $17.85 today.

Global Fund A: OPPAX, large cap US and foreign stock fund. $98.54 on Dec 20 2013; currently $74.35 today.

Global Strategic Income Fund A: OPSIX, global fixed income investments. $4.13 on Dec 20 2013; currently $3.61 today.

Limited-Term Bond Fund A: OUSGX, limited term US investment grade fixed income investments. $4.69 on Dec 20 2013; currently $4.43 today.

EDIT: over the past 5 years, only 1 fund is up and by a whopping 4.02%. The S&P 500, meanwhile, was at 1,818.31 on Dec 20, 2013 and is currently 2,568.37. That's a 41.25% return. The index produced 10x the returns of OP's only positive fund. Fire Oppenheimer, OP.




Holy shite. I had no idea that this board didn’t have a basic idea of how mutual funds work

Looking at historical mutual fund prices to know whether you made money or not is insane


ETA: I truly mean no disrespect (because you are one of many), but nobody take investment advice from Omada. Giving opinions on things like this when you have absolutely no clue what you’re discussing could ruin people’s lives


ETA#2: You completely left out the giant capital gains that Oppenheimer has paid out on these funds over the last 5 years, and a capital gain distribution lowers the trading price of shares, just so you know where you went wrong
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 3:01 pm
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

I know it is not smart when Uncle Sam takes his cut in taxes and an extra 10 percent. But with the employer match in the IRA some of this is like playing with house money. I still have a long time before retirement.
wait what
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82036 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:47 pm to
I'm surprised no one has said that chart does not mean anything.

no labeling of axis, no title, and most importantly no scale. Wtf
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35402 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:49 pm to
I hope OP does not go to his employer asking for these changes based on performance. Every analytic of these funds’ performance in this thread has been dead wrong

Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35402 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

wait what




This whole thread is full of WTF
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89552 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:02 pm to
quote:

The past ten years has been an epic bull market for stocks unless you got it right before the crash.


Yeah, I've gone from zero to nearly $200k since Spring 2010.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35239 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

And an addendum to my previous post. The 5 year % return (total, not annual) for his funds and the net expense ratio:
OPTFX: -12.93%, 1.05% net expense ratio
OPOCX: -19.78%, 1.08% net expense ratio
QVGIX: 4.02%, 1.28% net expense ratio
OPPAX: -24.55%, 1.12% net expense ratio
OPSIX: -12.59%, 0.99% net expense ratio
OUSGX: -5.54%, 0.75% net expense ratio
I just back tested this portfolio with equal weighting from 01/11 through 11/18 and Annualized growth is 4.97%. And every single one of those funds has had positive growth.

Something doesn’t make sense.
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 3:40 pm
Posted by Omada
Member since Jun 2015
695 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

Looking at historical mutual fund prices to know whether you made money or not is insane

...Crap. You're right, and I screwed up big time. I figured Google was showing a graph for changes in NAV value for the shares. It's clearly not, and I should have checked Morningstar. I figured OP's negative yearly returns would've lined up with declining NAV similar to the Google graphs. My apologies, everyone. I'm downvoting myself.

But now that I've checked actual NAV results for the funds, I'm left asking why OP actually has negative annual results. Every fund has seen positive NAV growth over the past 5 years. My only guesses are the premature distributions he admitted to or perhaps the IRA operating like the Google graph (share price down, so portfolio = down even though NAV is up).
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35239 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

But now that I've checked actual NAV results for the funds, I'm left asking why OP actually has negative annual results.
Yeah. It’s not adding up.
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35402 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:43 pm to
I didn’t mean to be a dick, but that was a big boo-boo


I do agree that the fund prices are a little high, but the admin fees on the plan may be low
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 3:45 pm
Posted by Omada
Member since Jun 2015
695 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:46 pm to
Yeah something doesn't add up because I messed up by using Google as my information source. As I mentioned in the post above, I thought the Google graph reflected changes in per share NAV value. It doesn't.

It still doesn't make sense why the OP is down every year, though.
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35402 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:47 pm to
OP is not giving the whole picture
Posted by Omada
Member since Jun 2015
695 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

I didn’t mean to be a dick, but that was a big boo-boo
Yeah, it was. Thank you for calling it out. It's a shame that Google can't be used for a quick snapshot of mutual fund performance though because there are a couple of extra clicks involved to get it on Morningstar or the fund's website. The horror, ya know?
Posted by gpburdell
ATL
Member since Jun 2015
1423 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

I doubt I have seen any gains in the past 10 years.


Since the US market crash in 2008-2009, the US stock market was up 500% at one point earlier this year.

My portfolio has grown 3x since 2009 and I'm just investing primarily in lost cost index funds/etfs.

If you haven't seen any gains in the last 10 years, you really need to figure out what you're doing.

UPDATE: I just saw your other post that it's being managed by a firm and they are using high cost funds. You need to transfer your assets somewhere else (Vanguard, Fidelity, etc) and take control.
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 4:01 pm
Posted by Enadious
formerly B5Lurker City of Central
Member since Aug 2004
17693 posts
Posted on 12/18/18 at 6:25 pm to
quote:

Since the US market crash in 2008-2009, the US stock market was up 500% at one point earlier this year.


Propped up by QE... that ship has sailed...
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