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Started By
Message
How would you handle a financially irresponsible mother in law?
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:41 am
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:41 am
I'm just married. My wife's mother is a financial disaster. She is in her upper 50's, literally no savings or retirement. She has declared bankruptcy once. She often struggles to pay her monthly rent or bills, and asks for help. She hasn't asked us yet, but the time will no doubt come.
I have told my wife that I do not want to give her money when she does ask, because she needs to start with a plan to better her financial position. I have a hard time justifying giving someone money when they aren't responsible with it. For instance, she works on commission and has had a rough few years. She recently had a good month and had some money to spend. She used that money to go on a vacation, and the next month she needed help to pay bills. I thought it was ludicrous, given her position, to not save or pay down her credit card debt. I also once witnessed her make a trip to Target to buy a gift card to a steakhouse with her Target credit card, because she was meeting friends there for dinner and drinks that night but did not have any money to pay for it.
Those are just a few examples. She could also save plenty of money elsewhere. She buys 4-5 bottles of wine a week. She insists on buying bottled water, my wife and I have offered to buy her a brita filter to refill and cut out the bottled water but she refuses. She also pays for cable and hardly watches any TV, only watches a few channels. These are all miniscule things but when you are struggling to make ends meet, they are difference makers.
I don't want to come across as heartless, am I being a dick here? It would be one thing if we didn't give her money and we had plenty of disposable income. But to give her money as often as she needs it, would require us to cut back on our retirement savings. After we pay our bills and contribute to retirement, we don't have much left.
What would you do? I'm also trying to prepare for what we are going to have to do when she cannot work anymore. My wife has a brother, and it will probably be on the two of us to pay for her care.
I have told my wife that I do not want to give her money when she does ask, because she needs to start with a plan to better her financial position. I have a hard time justifying giving someone money when they aren't responsible with it. For instance, she works on commission and has had a rough few years. She recently had a good month and had some money to spend. She used that money to go on a vacation, and the next month she needed help to pay bills. I thought it was ludicrous, given her position, to not save or pay down her credit card debt. I also once witnessed her make a trip to Target to buy a gift card to a steakhouse with her Target credit card, because she was meeting friends there for dinner and drinks that night but did not have any money to pay for it.
Those are just a few examples. She could also save plenty of money elsewhere. She buys 4-5 bottles of wine a week. She insists on buying bottled water, my wife and I have offered to buy her a brita filter to refill and cut out the bottled water but she refuses. She also pays for cable and hardly watches any TV, only watches a few channels. These are all miniscule things but when you are struggling to make ends meet, they are difference makers.
I don't want to come across as heartless, am I being a dick here? It would be one thing if we didn't give her money and we had plenty of disposable income. But to give her money as often as she needs it, would require us to cut back on our retirement savings. After we pay our bills and contribute to retirement, we don't have much left.
What would you do? I'm also trying to prepare for what we are going to have to do when she cannot work anymore. My wife has a brother, and it will probably be on the two of us to pay for her care.
14
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:47 am to Tigerfan56
You need to make some hard and fast decisions with your wife asap, before that time comes where she's begging.
What is your wife's take, you mentioned you talked about it?
Don't give her any money that would actually affect you and your wife's bottom line, and if you do give any money, make it come with strict rules. And if the Mom doesn't agree to them, she doesn't get the money.
But again the most important thing is to have a plan in place with your wife now, do not wait.
What is your wife's take, you mentioned you talked about it?
Don't give her any money that would actually affect you and your wife's bottom line, and if you do give any money, make it come with strict rules. And if the Mom doesn't agree to them, she doesn't get the money.
But again the most important thing is to have a plan in place with your wife now, do not wait.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 9:55 am to shel311
quote:
What is your wife's take, you mentioned you talked about it?
My wife is on the naive side. She doesn't have a lot of knowledge on finances. My wife doesn't make a lot of money, she's a local reporter at a small paper. Her mom has never asked her for money because my wife has never made much. But I make a decent wage as a CPA, not breaking the bank but we aren't struggling financially. I know that she will ask us someday just as she asks my brother in law, whose in a similar situation to my wife and I.
I've told her I don't want to give her money unless I could put some rules with it, cutting out the unnecessary spending by her. My wife agrees that's reasonable, but again, she doesn't believe it will happen and I don't know if she will act the same when it does.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:04 am to Tigerfan56
I can beat that. My MIL cleans houses when she feels like it. Has no bank account. No debit card. All cash. Husband won’t give her anything without having to ask first. She refuses to get a normal job. She is 52 and any extra money goes to cigarettes.
Asks us for money every once in a while. Asks us to fly her in to visit. Asks my fiancée for a $400 camera for her birthday.
That shite stopped last month when I said no more. She is an absolute nut who probably should be on some meds. My fiancée loves that I don’t take or allow any of her shite, as she would continue to enable her behavior.
Asks us for money every once in a while. Asks us to fly her in to visit. Asks my fiancée for a $400 camera for her birthday.
That shite stopped last month when I said no more. She is an absolute nut who probably should be on some meds. My fiancée loves that I don’t take or allow any of her shite, as she would continue to enable her behavior.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:16 am to Tigerfan56
I have some similar situations in my family. Best thing you can do is not let it even start. My family is so far deep paying for shite they can't stop. If you can't do that because your wife is adamant or for whatever reason, pay for whatever directly. If the mother comes and asks for money to pay her cell phone bill tell her to give you the log in and pay the bill. Two things will happen, she'll give it to you and you pay the bill. At least this way you know you are actually paying what she cant and it's helping her out. Two, she'll say no just give me cash I'll go pay it. DO NOT DO THIS. Zero perncent chance it goes to the phone bill.
If people want your money, they can live with the rules. If she really needs help, help her, but don't feed her bad habits.
If people want your money, they can live with the rules. If she really needs help, help her, but don't feed her bad habits.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:22 am to Mingo Was His NameO
Solid advice. I treat them like an addict. Supervised support.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:29 am to YoungManOldMan
quote:
Solid advice. I treat them like an addict. Supervised support.
I’d take it a step further.
I’ll pay your AT&T bill if you, cut cable.
I’ll pay the CC bill this month if you get another part time job. Etc.
She’s exactly the type of person Dave Ramsey is for. Buy her the book and pay for the classes and if she completes those, maybe start her off on the right foot with one of the above.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:39 am to Tigerfan56
While very little of what the man says applies to my own situation, I can appreciate much of what he has to say, especially when it comes to people like your mother-in-law; Dave Ramsey's advice FULLY applies here. I understand that many here don't like his preachy style (or maybe some other things about him), but this woman's behavior screams for his advice and guidance, IMO. I'd pick him over others because it really sounds like she needs a solid size 13 in the arse.
But anyway, the way I see it, you might as well realize RIGHT NOW that this is your (financially naive) wife's mother. She's going to cry a river if/when her mother starts truly crashing and burning - she's still her mother, no matter what. So the day is probably fast approaching when MIL is going to become your problem, by extension of you being married to her daughter. It's not being hard-hearted to lay down the law now. How your wife will react to this, I don't know. But I could certainly imagine this damaging, if not destroying, your marriage. If not Ramsey, then I'd set her up for some sort of financial counseling. Whether it's a relative or just anyone I know, I'm willing to help someone who is trying to help themselves. But if you just look to me for handouts to support your habit (drugs, drink, spending foolishly, etc.), I cannot and will not help you. And I'll explain in whatever detail you need to hear why I will not do that. I'd have a long, thoughtful talk with the wife first and then we could both talk to the MIL.
But that's just me and how I've lived my (single) life for a long time.
But anyway, the way I see it, you might as well realize RIGHT NOW that this is your (financially naive) wife's mother. She's going to cry a river if/when her mother starts truly crashing and burning - she's still her mother, no matter what. So the day is probably fast approaching when MIL is going to become your problem, by extension of you being married to her daughter. It's not being hard-hearted to lay down the law now. How your wife will react to this, I don't know. But I could certainly imagine this damaging, if not destroying, your marriage. If not Ramsey, then I'd set her up for some sort of financial counseling. Whether it's a relative or just anyone I know, I'm willing to help someone who is trying to help themselves. But if you just look to me for handouts to support your habit (drugs, drink, spending foolishly, etc.), I cannot and will not help you. And I'll explain in whatever detail you need to hear why I will not do that. I'd have a long, thoughtful talk with the wife first and then we could both talk to the MIL.
But that's just me and how I've lived my (single) life for a long time.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:57 am to Golfer
quote:That's what I had in mind when I mentioned the rules in my post.
I’d take it a step further.
I’ll pay your AT&T bill if you, cut cable.
I’ll pay the CC bill this month if you get another part time job. Etc.
Don't give her anything for free, if you will.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 10:58 am to Golfer
quote:
I’d take it a step further.
I’ll pay your AT&T bill if you, cut cable.
I’ll pay the CC bill this month if you get another part time job. Etc.
Along with this... I would say that I'm paying the bill directly.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 11:34 am to Tigerfan56
Just make sure you understand that you will never get back anything you give her.
After you max your retirement and pay your bills, you can “help” her if you want too.
I watched my mother in law go through about 2.5 million dollars in 5 years just throwing it away.
I told my wife, “you can spend whatever you make on her, but do not spend more than you make.”
You can or help these type of people. They are always broke.
After you max your retirement and pay your bills, you can “help” her if you want too.
I watched my mother in law go through about 2.5 million dollars in 5 years just throwing it away.
I told my wife, “you can spend whatever you make on her, but do not spend more than you make.”
You can or help these type of people. They are always broke.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 11:41 am to Tigerfan56
Never give her a cent.
Be clear to the wife that her living and lifestyle is not your obligation or your wife's.
Be clear to the wife that her living and lifestyle is not your obligation or your wife's.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 11:57 am to Tigerfan56
Count me in the hard hearted camp. I have a financially profligate brother in law. He received inheritance from his parents estates, twice in 5 years....and managed to run through all of it. He called us for money, we said no. I help his kids out (apt deposit to move to new city for a job, business clothes for new college grad, travel), because they didn’t ask for a financially irresponsible dad. But I won’t give him any money, because he’s a selfish child at heart. He’s educated, could work more/harder, but he’s lazy/unmotivated/clinically depressed or maybe just simply willful and adolescent in his choices.
You need to discuss this with your wife. Make sure that she’s also involved in saying no not just you. This might become a terribly divisive thing for your marriage unless you present a united front. She asks, you both say no, then you explain why. Point out that you disagree with her choices, and you won’t support her poor choices with your money.
If she legitimately seems to want to change, perhaps suggest an incentive arrangement; you will give her $X toward her shortfall if she documents some reduction in her monthly obligations....cancelling cable, cheaper phone plan, selling unneeded jewelry or other stuff, establishing a savings account, making a fixed monthly retirement contribution. But wife needs to be part of all of these conversations. If she is financially naive, she needs to learn to manage things as well as you do. Too damn many households operate on a “daddy’s wallet” paradigm, rather than both spouses having open conversations about money and spending.
I also urge therapy as a possible solution. Compulsive spenders frequently have unmet emotional needs or unaddressed issues. If she gets a handle on her unhappiness, she may stop trying to buy her way out of it.
You need to discuss this with your wife. Make sure that she’s also involved in saying no not just you. This might become a terribly divisive thing for your marriage unless you present a united front. She asks, you both say no, then you explain why. Point out that you disagree with her choices, and you won’t support her poor choices with your money.
If she legitimately seems to want to change, perhaps suggest an incentive arrangement; you will give her $X toward her shortfall if she documents some reduction in her monthly obligations....cancelling cable, cheaper phone plan, selling unneeded jewelry or other stuff, establishing a savings account, making a fixed monthly retirement contribution. But wife needs to be part of all of these conversations. If she is financially naive, she needs to learn to manage things as well as you do. Too damn many households operate on a “daddy’s wallet” paradigm, rather than both spouses having open conversations about money and spending.
I also urge therapy as a possible solution. Compulsive spenders frequently have unmet emotional needs or unaddressed issues. If she gets a handle on her unhappiness, she may stop trying to buy her way out of it.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 12:11 pm to Tigerfan56
My wife and I got married about a year and a half ago and I'm grateful that we had/have a foundation of a Christian faith to look toward as we make life decisions. I started having conversations with her early and often about general temptations our sin nature lures us into. Money/spending is probably the most obvious one and I'm able to make points about the way most people think about and spend money and how that is a result of giving in to our natural temptations. It's no different than the ways I give in to natural temptations in other areas of my life like saving or hoarding the excess that we have. So when I can speak more matter of factly and broadly as opposed to a specific individual (MIL in this case) it makes it easier to see a bigger issue at play vs something specific to a person. I also tell her that we have to be very sensitive to the fact that our natural temptation toward selfishness/greed will cloud our reasoning around being generous.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 12:51 pm to Kemosabie
quote:
I also tell her that we have to be very sensitive to the fact that our natural temptation toward selfishness/greed will cloud our reasoning around being generous.
What, exactly, do you mean by that? The MinL in question is not destitute, starving, or homeless, she is simply living above her means. It is not un-generous for this couple to refuse to subsidize her life as the cost of their own fiscal prudence. It is not greedy to expect a grown woman who is employed to not overspend. It is not greedy to tell a grown woman that they can’t pay her cable bill because, say, they’re saving for a downpayment on a house.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 12:53 pm to Kemosabie
quote:
My wife and I got married about a year and a half ago and I'm grateful that we had/have a foundation of a Christian faith to look toward as we make life decisions.
If that works for you, awesome.
I'm atheist and I make decisions based on my own moral and ethical code. To each his own.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 1:12 pm to Kemosabie
quote:
I also tell her that we have to be very sensitive to the fact that our natural temptation toward selfishness/greed will cloud our reasoning around being generous.
I mean, I have student loans you're welcome to pay off for me...
Posted on 12/28/17 at 3:03 pm to Tigerfan56
If she ask I would say ok I will give you this amount but you have to ...make a list of things for her to prepare including her making a budget and including a list of things she will do to cut her monthly expenses by 10% (like drinking from the fountain, cutting cable, etc). This has to be done and approved by you before any money is shared with her. I would also make sure she understands that this is a one time deal.
In the end it is not about how much money you make, it is about how much money you spend. Wish I had learned that about 5 years before I did.
In the end it is not about how much money you make, it is about how much money you spend. Wish I had learned that about 5 years before I did.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 3:15 pm to Tigerfan56
In the past I had a similar problem. I eventually, with her permission, gained access to her checking account online--not to use it but to monitor it. It was eye opening. Home Shopping Network was the big winner to the tune of the hundreds per month she was asking for to pay for needs. That stopped immediately and so did the request for money. If you do not have a firm handle on where her money goes, don't give her any. If you do have a handle and it is spent on unnecessary things, like 5 bottles of wine per week (she is an alcoholic, too, I am guessing), then don't give her any money. If she will not be financially transparent, do not give her money.
Posted on 12/28/17 at 3:28 pm to Tigerfan56
Get ahead of it and ask her for money before she asks you
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