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re: How many times will folks on this board get burned by XOM?

Posted on 10/28/20 at 11:02 pm to
Posted by Thecoz
Member since Dec 2018
3407 posts
Posted on 10/28/20 at 11:02 pm to
ok...what is better

need 5 percent yield for my bond bucket
...will consider company stocks also if stable and low downside risk...i have 35 percent of my stock/bonds portfolio in 3-6 year investment grade corp bonds ..i buy them at 20k a pop and spread them into dififferent sectors...not seeing any bonds i like right now...want monthly cashflow and not bond indexs..i have those also and do not need more...

already at 40+percent of portfolio in growth equities..domestic and international...

need to reduce cash....do not want real estate (have that in different allocation...nor do i need fixed income immediate annuities...got those also...)

what should i be buying


Posted by rickgrimes
Member since Jan 2011
4260 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 12:26 am to
quote:

what should i be buying

NOT XOM if you want to preserve your principle!

Go with something like WMT. Dividend yield of 1.54%. $524B in revenue this year. Stock price solid as a rock with low beta of 0.27. For pure stability of stock price, you can't beat Walmart. Was trading at $120 prior to the market meldown in March, when it dropped to $104, now it is trading at $140. It is much less volatile than the overall stock market and probably as close to a bond that I can think of at this moment.
This post was edited on 10/29/20 at 12:30 am
Posted by dragginass
Member since Jan 2013
2984 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 8:06 am to
I think you're asking the wrong question. The question isn't even if O&G is in a long term downtrend. The question is if O&G stocks are temporarily suppressed below the long term trend due to Covid and a temporary glut.
Posted by hiltacular
NYC
Member since Jan 2011
19962 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 8:18 am to
quote:

How many times will folks on this board get burned by XOM?

Well its primarily a LA based message board and one of the biggest industries in LA is O&G. It should not be surprising those companies get talked about the most.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
31836 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 8:23 am to
quote:

I think you're asking the wrong question. The question isn't even if O&G is in a long term downtrend. The question is if O&G stocks are temporarily suppressed below the long term trend due to Covid and a temporary glut.

That’s a possibility. But tell me what’s going to change? We aren’t going back to the way things used to be. OPEC+ isn’t cooperating. XOM itself is making poor investments and not being run effectively, it’s a bloated operation
Posted by Thecoz
Member since Dec 2018
3407 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 9:19 am to
hmmmm
you pretty much missed the entire point
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4292 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Well its primarily a LA based message board and one of the biggest industries in LA is O&G. It should not be surprising those companies get talked about the most.


Bingo. I asked the same question when I first came here and saw the skew toward O&G investments (I’m not from that area). I think it was a Forbes study that found that people in different regions gravitate toward the industries that dominate their region. West coast skews heavy tech. Midwest skews heavy ag and farm equipment. So on and so forth. So I guess it’s a case of people going with what they know or are most familiar with. The problem with it is that people can become overallocated in certain sectors and not be properly diversified.
Posted by dragginass
Member since Jan 2013
2984 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 10:04 am to
quote:

But tell me what’s going to change?


1. Covid/worldwide demand/airline traffic
2. Fracking. Fracking has created a price cap the last few years. It's not going away, but many of those producers haven't weathered this storm as the majors have.
This post was edited on 10/29/20 at 10:05 am
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
31836 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 10:16 am to
quote:

1. Covid/worldwide demand/airline traffic 2. Fracking. Fracking has created a price cap the last few years. It's not going away, but many of those producers haven't weathered this storm as the majors have.

1. Like I said, demand isn’t going to suddenly go back up. Things are different. A large amount of airline travel is business related, and a lot of that will not happen in the future. Companies are saving tons of money by not flying so they aren’t going to bring it back at anywhere near the same levels. Driving isn’t going to significantly increase either
2. Fracking might be reduced, but OPEC+ is increasing production
Posted by TDFreak
Coast to Coast - L.A. to Chicago
Member since Dec 2009
8234 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 10:54 am to
Dividend maintained. Layoffs announced today. Earnings announced tomorrow.

Stock should close up by Friday.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52398 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 11:29 am to
quote:

None of the oil and gas companies are going anywhere anytime soon...Biden is all talk and whatever is trendy he is saying just to get elected....he is nothing but a senile liberal hippie Democrat and people are stupid to vote for him


No one is saying they are about to go bankrupt

They are just saying that the era of both high dividends with high growth is now over, and there is zero objective metric to think otherwise.

And I say that as someone with significant holdings in Chevron, simply because they have the strongest balance sheet of the majors, combined with respectable international holdings (more so with the NOBLE acquisition)

But even then I plan to wind down my holdings on them over the next decade or so
This post was edited on 10/29/20 at 11:31 am
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
31836 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

Dividend maintained. Layoffs announced today. Earnings announced tomorrow. Stock should close up by Friday.

Sure it might close up after being significantly down this week. The dividend is maintained for now. But earnings will be bad and 2021 projections will be bad. The 2021 outlook will be the biggest factor in the share price
Posted by 8thyearsenior
Centennial, CO
Member since Mar 2006
4280 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

No one is saying they are about to go bankrupt


I am. The majors aren't going bankrupt but a whole lot of the small operators are. Capital is going to be much more difficult for these guys to get their hands on, it is why you are seeing an uptick in frac spreads and rig counts. All of em are in a mad dash to get production online so Q4 won't look as bad as it actually is. Most are stuck in a prisoner's dilemma, they need everyone else to cut production so prices can rise yet they can't afford to cut production themselves.

Even with 2/3 of the GOM production shut in today due to the hurricane, prices are pooping the bed.

quote:

“I just think that there’s only going to be three or four really survivors, independents, and that’s going to be probably most likely ConocoPhillips, EOG and Pioneer and maybe Hess long term.”

this is a quote from Scott Sheffield from an article in Forbes from two days ago.

I am really surprised XOM confirmed their dividend.
Posted by Volvagia
Fort Worth
Member since Mar 2006
52398 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

I am really surprised XOM confirmed their dividend


Because it’ll be a blood bath for their shares if all of the institutional dividend centric funds auto dump XOM per their fund outline.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4292 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

picking it as a dca for a dividend greater than 4.5 and it acts like a bond. oils have been beaten down so look at it for fixed income bucket..

if it goes down a little dividend goes up ..goes up...divy down...if they cut still will compete with bonds..especially now...


I see where you're coming from, but I'd be careful looking at a common stock (this or any other) as a bond equivalent. With a bond, unless you're paying above face value, you have a solid idea of your purchase price coming back to you. That's not true of any common stock.

As for the dividend, unless the div is raised (or lowered), your yield doesn't change, as it's based on what you paid for it. A bond has a coupon that will remain unchanged, short of some sort of negative liquidity event.

I'm not saying what you should or shouldn't do with your money (ya know... since it's your money ), but if you already have enough corporate bonds, real estate and other investments, why not consider preferred stocks - since it's yield that you're really seeking here, as opposed to price appreciation? I've learned (the hard way ) not to chase yield in commons. So just throwing an idea out to you. Good luck either way.
Posted by Thecoz
Member since Dec 2018
3407 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 2:48 pm to
thanks...understand the "your yield" comment which is why the focus on yields (in general ) greater than 5... can take a little hit and still beat bonds on the most part today(unless companies i am uncomfortable with )

i needed some five to seven year bonds to add to my 2-7 year bond ladder that i already have in place and the feds stepped in and lowered rates before finishing (bond ladder as is ..is giving just under 4 percent)

other stocks in this bucket are mo bti vz ko cvx rdsb efc and a few others....
these combined represent about 3% of my portfolio...
i am ignorant on preferred stock....i will research this topic....
thanks
Posted by PUB
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2017
19998 posts
Posted on 10/29/20 at 7:03 pm to
In only 7 years, XOM went from the company with the highest market cap to a pile of manure worth less than Zoom.
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
84597 posts
Posted on 10/30/20 at 8:42 am to
quote:

Dividend maintained.
Interesting. Haven't seen the earnings release yet, but I'm guessing they're probably borrowing to maintain that dividend. Which means they think maintaining the reliable Div reputation as things start to recover is more important than cleaning up the balance sheet and taking a short term pain.
Hopefully this works out for them, will be interesting to see.
Posted by 8thyearsenior
Centennial, CO
Member since Mar 2006
4280 posts
Posted on 10/30/20 at 9:22 am to
Well they’ve stopped 401k matches and are laying off about 2000 people. If that doesn’t motivate the remaining employees to do their best....I guess they can try caffeine in the water coolers next.

My buddy has a short position on em and he was worried they would cut the dividend and the price would increase because it was being run as a real business.

With OPEC+ members grumbling about keeping output cuts I don’t see any good news for oil prices on the horizon. If you own this stock it might be time to make some decisions about where it is going and are you staying along for the ride.
Posted by Thecoz
Member since Dec 2018
3407 posts
Posted on 10/30/20 at 9:49 am to
welcome to 1980 in the oil industry....

history repeats itself...
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