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Message
Housing: WTF?
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:30 am
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:30 am
Twitter
Who the hell is building right now? Either these people have money to spend or they're blindly jumping into higher-rate loans.
Add the continued drop in jobless claims and rising job growth numbers, and I think a .5 rate increase has to be back on the table.
quote:
- US Housing Starts Feb: 1450K (exp 1310K; prevR 1321K)
- Housing Starts (M/M) Feb: 9.8% (exp 0.1%; prevR -2.0%)
Who the hell is building right now? Either these people have money to spend or they're blindly jumping into higher-rate loans.
Add the continued drop in jobless claims and rising job growth numbers, and I think a .5 rate increase has to be back on the table.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:47 am to Bard
There simply isn't enough housing supply in this Country. I know you guys like to ignore that and keep praying for a 'crash' for some reason but up to this point that hasn't happened.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:49 am to Bard
It is absolutely baffling the hammer hasn't dropped yet on real estate. Unemployment rates keeping it on life support is the only thing I can come up with.
I think they know 50 basis points would frick everything up. I'm betting on a pause or 25 bips.
I think they know 50 basis points would frick everything up. I'm betting on a pause or 25 bips.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 9:59 am to Bard
There are 6 housing developments in construction within 10 miles of me. Most are already sold. People are buying because they have no choice. The homes are averaging 600k at a 6% interest rate. I feel bad for them but it could be worse. Likely will down the road.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:00 am to ronricks
quote:
There simply isn't enough housing supply in this Country.
This could be true and it could not be true. There are so many variables to consider before you can call this factual.
Housing units per capita is near an all-time high.
Population growth is collapsing in USA
There is a surplus of demand now because we are at an unhealthy unemployment rate. I think we can all agree unemployment rates are going to go back up to normal levels which destroys the excess demand.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:02 am to I Love Bama
ronricks is a "inventory" true believer.
I'm shocked he is showing his face after how much housing has been affected by non-0% interest life
He told us that wouldn't happen b/c of muh inventory
*ETA: now watch, he's going to back track and say that's NOT what he said
I'm shocked he is showing his face after how much housing has been affected by non-0% interest life
He told us that wouldn't happen b/c of muh inventory
*ETA: now watch, he's going to back track and say that's NOT what he said
This post was edited on 3/16/23 at 10:03 am
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:08 am to Bard
quote:
Who the hell is building right now?
People moving from California to Texas, they can get twice the house for 450K.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:10 am to I Love Bama
quote:
Population growth is collapsing in USA
While this is factual I don't believe its a factor now but will be in 20-30 years. The surplus of demand, in my opinion, is due to remote jobs from large city's coming to suburban markets and eating up all the inventory which would typically be available. Also, more people with higher incomes are renting, so the move for developers has been to build neighborhoods and lease out single family homes. The product is being built but with less ownership if that makes sense.
All that being said its really making the housing market numbers skewed...
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:10 am to SlowFlowPro
This is simply a supply and demand issue and dates back to 2008-2010. This is finally the glut that was created back then with virtually no new inventory for 3 years. Combine that with 10 straight years of historic low rates where the small amount of existing inventory was gobbled go at record rates and it’s a worse situation now despite higher rates.
I’m still seeing 10+ offers on nice/well priced homes in my market.
I’m still seeing 10+ offers on nice/well priced homes in my market.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:13 am to ronricks
quote:
There simply isn't enough housing supply in this Country. I know you guys like to ignore that and keep praying for a 'crash' for some reason but up to this point that hasn't happened.
There is lots of inventory out there.
No one is "praying" for a crash, it's that understanding economic forces at play means having the knowledge that it is inevitable. Along with that, it's also the understanding that the longer it takes for the correction to happen, the worse it will be when it does.
Economic forces are like steam pressures. There has to be a release valve somewhere or eventually there's an explosion. Home starts continuing to increase at a rapid pace while loan rates increase and inflation continues to widen the gap between itself and wage growth is not a formula for a smooth-running economy. It's quite the opposite.
This post was edited on 3/16/23 at 10:19 am
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:17 am to SlowFlowPro
If you guys ever get bored, pull up real estate news articles before the crash of 2007/2008. They basically made the same arguments as people are making now while ignoring the red flags.
Before I got into government contracting. I was a commercial real estate appraiser for 10 years. Had my MAI certification for 2 years before I got sick of the industry.
I feel as though I have at least a TINY advantage over people who own some single family rentals and they are worried their investment will collapse so they cope. OR they bought a house in this WILD arse market, paid too much and are worried their "investment" is going to tank.
During the last housing crash, all that demand disappeared over night. People moved in with friends, family and small apartments.
I was buying houses off the MLS for $10,000.
You guys really need to dig in deeper to past housing crashes.
Before I got into government contracting. I was a commercial real estate appraiser for 10 years. Had my MAI certification for 2 years before I got sick of the industry.
I feel as though I have at least a TINY advantage over people who own some single family rentals and they are worried their investment will collapse so they cope. OR they bought a house in this WILD arse market, paid too much and are worried their "investment" is going to tank.
During the last housing crash, all that demand disappeared over night. People moved in with friends, family and small apartments.
I was buying houses off the MLS for $10,000.
You guys really need to dig in deeper to past housing crashes.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:23 am to I Love Bama
quote:
I think they know 50 basis points would frick everything up. I'm betting on a pause or 25 bips.
There will be no pause this month, not with these numbers. I would bet .75 before I would bet on a pause.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:25 am to ronricks
quote:
There simply isn't enough housing supply in this Country. I know you guys like to ignore that and keep praying for a 'crash' for some reason but up to this point that hasn't happened.
Ok millenial rentoid
Building houses is what’s ruining this country. Y’all take nice farmland and woods and turn it into concrete and dsld claptraps and bring yalls Starbucks and McDonald’s with y’all. If you don’t own a house at this point you should be forced to live in one of those big grey people warehouses like in China
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:28 am to I Love Bama
quote:
If you guys ever get bored, pull up real estate news articles before the crash of 2007/2008. They basically made the same arguments as people are making now while ignoring the red flags.
There was a building boom then. There isn't one now.
Loan standards were ridiculous then.
Not the same
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:31 am to Bard
quote:
There will be no pause this month, not with these numbers. I would bet .75 before I would bet on a pause.
I'm rooting for more hikes. A country can come back from a recession/depression. fricking up their currency is a different story.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:32 am to Billy Blanks
quote:
Not the same
Ah yes, it's always "different this time"
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:38 am to Billy Blanks
They are building condos and apartments by the acre west of Disney, along the I-4 corridor. Thousands.
My house has dropped $39k this year, according to Zillow.
My house has dropped $39k this year, according to Zillow.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:46 am to I Love Bama
quote:
Population growth is collapsing in USA
Not yet, but if millennials don't start having lots of kids it will in the future.
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:52 am to Bard
There are still markets that are still very underbuilt. Raleigh-Durham is still 20%-30% underbuilt and new businesses keep rolling in and expanding.
Now, how long that lasts, I have no idea, but there is still large amounts of demand that hasn't cooled the market down significantly. Especially when we have hordes of people moving to the area that are coming in from ultra-expensive areas and even inflated local costs seem like pennies to them.
How much these small pockets can affect the overall stats? I don't know. But I imagine even these areas will be cooling down fast and soon.
Now, how long that lasts, I have no idea, but there is still large amounts of demand that hasn't cooled the market down significantly. Especially when we have hordes of people moving to the area that are coming in from ultra-expensive areas and even inflated local costs seem like pennies to them.
How much these small pockets can affect the overall stats? I don't know. But I imagine even these areas will be cooling down fast and soon.
This post was edited on 3/16/23 at 10:54 am
Posted on 3/16/23 at 10:58 am to I Love Bama
quote:
A country can come back from a recession/depression. fricking up their currency is a different story.
But look at how good countries come back from nukes
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