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Can someone explain options to me?

Posted on 5/21/19 at 6:16 pm
Posted by GAFF
Georgia
Member since Aug 2010
2450 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 6:16 pm
Let me preface this by saying I’m not investing a lot of money into this and I understand I need to know what I’m doing and the risks involved before doing it

I usually throw a couple hundred bucks into Robinhood and do the short term game with cheap stock. Just as a hobby and not a means of making it rich. I’m looking to learn about other aspects of trading. I enjoy playing the market and learning all the different types of trades and really to just become a knowledgeable trader. Not saying I want to be Michael Burry or anything, I just enjoy gaining knowledge about things. I read into margin trading and feel I have a good grasp on it but there’s no way I’m “borrowing” money to buy stock. Now I’m trying to learn about options. I’ve read several articles online trying to understand how it works but honestly I’m lost.

I understand options are for blocks of stock, and the meaning of strike prices, and being in the money, etc.

I feel I have the “buying a call” option understood. If stock ABC is selling for $10 and I buy an option on that stock at $11 and it goes to $15 I can exercise my option and make $4 a share profit minus the premium. Where I get lost is the other type of options. Specifically buying a Put. Do I have to own the stock first? If I don’t own the stock how do I “sell” the stock? Does the stock have to reach a certain price before my option is placed?
Posted by Georgia Sooner 745
Member since Jan 2019
152 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 6:40 pm to
Would highly recommend start paper trading options before using real money or you’ll likely lose big. A lot of info and videos on it online.
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
35391 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 6:48 pm to
Yeah frick that. I’m not being responsible for someone trading options
Posted by bovine1
Walnut Ridge,AR via Tallulah,LA
Member since Dec 2004
1280 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 6:53 pm to
If you buy a put on a stock you don't own and it goes in the money you have at least 2 options. 1. Sell the option and pocket your profit if there is one. 2. Exercise the option and you will have a short position in that stock. If you go short you will have to be approved for margin and need to understand the complexities and obligations (margin) of being short.
Posted by CajunTiger92
Member since Dec 2007
2821 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 8:23 pm to
Typically you will want to sell your options rather than excersis them. If you do not have the cash to excercise the option, a brokerage firm may step in and sell it for you.

With options there are two things you have to get right. Direction and timing. It is difficult to get those two things right at the same time consistently.

If you aren’t very familar with technical analysis of stocks and indexes, you should before trading option, IMO.
Posted by ed3303
Alexandria
Member since Jan 2009
392 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 10:41 pm to
My advice would be to do a lot of paper trades first to get a very good grasp of option principles and strategies. When I first started trading options a few years ago, I didn't have nearly the understanding that I should have had and lost a TON (by my measure anyway)! Once I began to get a good working knowledge of option trading it began to work well for me. Having said that, I only trade options with a small percentage (10-15%) of my overall portfolio and would not be comfortable with much more.
Posted by hubertcumberdale
Member since Nov 2009
6511 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 10:55 pm to
Wow, there's a lot to learn...I would start with basic options pricing (Black-Scholes Equation), which is basically a differential equation that delivers the fair market value of the option based on 'greeks,' which measure value sensitivity of the underlying asset with respect to to various parameters. The greeks can also give a sense of how the general population views the future of a security (implied volatility). I am sure I butchered some of this, as it has been a while since I practiced any kind of options trading/strategy, but just know there are tons of sharks swimming around waiting for fish that dont know what they are doing. The market is incredibly smart and efficient.

Black-Scholes Model

Greeks
Posted by Georgia Sooner 745
Member since Jan 2019
152 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 10:57 pm to
If you want to see how bad some people lose playing options go check out wallstreetbets on Reddit
Posted by JetsCoach
Bossier City
Member since Dec 2017
769 posts
Posted on 5/21/19 at 11:43 pm to
After many many years of investing, 90% of money made in options are made by the sellers of options, 10% from the buyers of options. Odds are extremely stacked against the buyers.
Selling options is like owning the Casino. Buying options is like a gambler at the Casino. Which would you rather do?

Posted by athenslife101
Member since Feb 2013
18568 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 12:02 am to
An option is a contract that gives the purchaser of said contract the right but not the obligation to to buy or sell an underlying asset at an agreed upon price in the future.

I met a man once who was high up in the regulatory arm of the OCC. He was hammered but he told me that very very very few people make money when all is considered and that if people saw on a daily basis how much people lost, they’d be shocked.

I thankfully have had very little ever to do with options but I do remember I saw a futures option once. As opposed to an option future. Damn that was weird.
This post was edited on 5/22/19 at 12:14 am
Posted by Order88
Member since Sep 2010
54 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 2:10 am to
Have fun letting an option expire worthless. Time decay is a bitch.
Posted by GAFF
Georgia
Member since Aug 2010
2450 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 6:56 pm to
Thanks guys. I’m not necessarily going to trade options, just like to know how things work. For instance with the margin trading. I knew once I learned what it was that it wasn’t for me. But I’m still glad I learned how it works. That’s the mindset I’m going into options with.
Posted by Georgia Sooner 745
Member since Jan 2019
152 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 7:58 pm to
You can make money trading options and they can be used to hedge positions in your portfolio. The main thing is to understand what your doing and to practice using fake money before real money.
Posted by GAFF
Georgia
Member since Aug 2010
2450 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 6:24 am to
Ok so if I buy a Put/Call I can sell my option anytime before the expiration date to close my position. As long as it’s the same exact option. Of course I would only do this if it was in the money. Is it the same way if I sell to open? I just buy the same option that I sold to close? Or once I sell an option it’s out of my hands and the only way I make money is if the buyer doesn’t exercise the option?
Posted by Jp1LSU
Fiji
Member since Oct 2005
2542 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 12:48 pm to
10-15 years ago I used to buy call options on Apple. They also started doing “weekly” options (expired in one week). At the time I didn’t understand that much about it at the time, but apple’s steady rise combined with the volatility in the market created lots of opportunities to trade large volumes of that stock without needing a lot of money to put down.
It did feel like dice rolling, but it was for the most part profitable.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4106 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

Ok so if I buy a Put/Call I can sell my option anytime before the expiration date to close my position. As long as it’s the same exact option. Of course I would only do this if it was in the money. Is it the same way if I sell to open? I just buy the same option that I sold to close? Or once I sell an option it’s out of my hands and the only way I make money is if the buyer doesn’t exercise the option?


I'm not endorsing this site or its owner: Option Alpha
But I will say that it has tons of free resources, and if you're serious (and not playing), you can learn a lot. And yes, you can make above average returns, without needing to get a PhD. in math to do it.

To answer your question, if you sell an option, you can buy to close at any time prior to expiration. I've been a premium seller for years. I generally only buy options when they're part of a defined risk strategy. In other words, if I sell a call at a given strike price, I might buy a protective call above that strike, just in case the market/security moves against me. That limits my risk, but also lessens my profit.

My trades are based around higher than normal implied volatility (IV), because that's when option premiums tend to be higher, and also high probability of success... represented by the delta of a particular strike. Market direction doesn't particularly matter to me. What I care about most is volatility. If you really want to roll the dice and buy options, you should limit that gamble to when implied volatility is relatively low (meaning cheaper premiums).

Whether it's Option Alpha, Tasty Trade or some other resource that offers easy to understand, fundamental explanations, learn before you try to trade - just as you would before driving a car.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4106 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 5:16 pm to
quote:

After many many years of investing, 90% of money made in options are made by the sellers of options, 10% from the buyers of options. Odds are extremely stacked against the buyers.

Selling options is like owning the Casino. Buying options is like a gambler at the Casino. Which would you rather do?


I haven't seen any detailed studies lately, but I'm inclined to believe your numbers. That's a(nother) reason why I have so little use for CNBC. On their Options Action dog & pony show, I decided to write down how many times their players recommended option selling out of ten strategies. 0 was what I got. Even in periods of high volatility, they recommended buying options or long strategies. Just as people have done with Jimmy Jam Cramer, someone should do a study on the percentage of winning vs. losing trades the Options Action gang does over the course of a year.

But I agree with you, selling options is like owning the casino or the insurance company. I'm not saying that it's easy or risk free. But done with an emotionless methodology and strategies that are appropriate for your account size, you can definitely make a consistent monthly income and above market average ROI.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4106 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 2:08 pm to
I watched part of Options Action the other day. Of the four trades I saw, none was based on selling premium or net shorting. All involved buying options or doing debit spreads. A review of a past trade (a debit spread expiring in June) showed that it had already lost around 50% of its value. Even in periods of high IV, they'll promote being net buyers of premium. I'd be ashamed of myself telling someone to do that over and over.

I don't see how CNBC gets away with this. Course, Jim "50/50" Cramer is one of their most popular talking heads, so maybe it's par for the course there. Why don't they ever show their win rates or maximum drawdowns??? Why no mention of CAGR or Sharpe Ratio???

If I was going to speculate by being a net premium buyer, I'd probably lean toward what Jon and Pete Najarian do: look for unusual options activity and jump on those longs for short term trades. You could put maybe 5-10% of a trading account toward that and do OK. I don't know. But I really think that the characters on Options Action put their crappiest strategies on that show and save the good stuff, that makes more consistent money, for their subscribers.
Posted by Omada
Member since Jun 2015
695 posts
Posted on 5/27/19 at 3:56 pm to
quote:

Why no mention of CAGR or Sharpe Ratio???

Never talk over your audience. I'd bet that a significant portion, if not the majority, of CNBC's viewers are neither sophisticated investors nor financial professionals, so many wouldn't understand what was being discussed unless the Sharpe Ratio concept was explained and growth rate or compounded annual growth rate was used in discussion instead of the acronym CAGR. And of course, I've no doubt that what you said is true: the best stuff is reserved for paying clients.

And since so many viewers aren't sophisticated investors or financial professionals, CNBC is reluctant to discuss option selling due to the complexities and downside risks. All the disclosures in the world won't stop people complaining, particularly on social media, after they tried to sell puts for Sears stock and now live in a cardboard box because they sold their house to pay the margin call.
Posted by Jag_Warrior
Virginia
Member since May 2015
4106 posts
Posted on 6/1/19 at 11:10 am to
quote:

Never talk over your audience.


True. Very true. Sometimes when I'd watch CNBC, even though Bill Griffeth and Sue Herera were there too, I'd forget that it wasn't the old Financial News Network (FNN). FNN did fantastic educational segments featuring John Bollinger (Bollinger Bands) and old Ira Epstein (futures), among others. It wasn't perfect, but you could learn something useful if you paid attention. If nothing else, you might develop a thirst for REAL investing knowledge.

Now it's all about putting on entertaining dog & pony sideshows and drawing the most eyeballs to the stage, which equals more ad dollars. So the top rated (by eyeballs) and most featured personality on CNBC is a guy who is more carnival barker than anything else (and has been beaten by two different monkeys, Mr. Adam Monk and Leonard the Wonder Monkey, in investment showdowns). I think that alone proves your point.

The OP hasn't come back. But if he does, or if anyone else takes an interest, hopefully he'll search out legitimate options trading educational resources... and avoid CNBC like the plague. There's a lot (good and bad) on YouTube. There's Tasty Trade Network on Roku and I guess AppleTV. If you're a T.D. Ameritrade/ThinkorSwim client, there's Trader TV.

Whether one gets into it or not, one CAN LEARN - course, I realize that you already know this stuff. Glad to see that you're still around. I've always enjoyed reading your analytical posts. I also come here a lot less now, but sometimes I'll read a thread where people are arguing about which dog turd penny weed stock they should employ the old buy & hope strategy on. I'm tempted to chime in and suggest that they at least consider something as simple as credit spreads on liquid securities with relatively high volatility (rich premiums), and potentially (with probabilities) make MUCH higher and consistent returns over time... with defined risk. But then I think, nah... leave it alone and go on about your business.

Anyway, always good talking to you.
This post was edited on 6/1/19 at 1:49 pm
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