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re: Berkshire Hathaway apparently unloaded their entire airline portfolio

Posted on 5/2/20 at 9:41 pm to
Posted by RemouladeSawce
Uranus
Member since Sep 2008
17843 posts
Posted on 5/2/20 at 9:41 pm to
quote:

So. Airline A begins to talk about bankruptcy proceedings. Feds say whoa whoa whoa you don't need to do that...here's 5 trillion

What does that do to the stocks? Fake propped up price?
Fake isn't really the right verbiage - there's nothing "fake" about knowing the govt. will keep the equity value above $0. Propped, sure.

I'm wondering if Buffett is more concerned that bailouts will entail dividend/buyback strings.
Posted by jcaz
Laffy
Member since Aug 2014
19295 posts
Posted on 5/2/20 at 9:41 pm to
They unloaded my arse too. I got laid off Thursday. Worked for one of their wholly owned aviation service companies.
Posted by Skin
Member since Jun 2007
6386 posts
Posted on 5/2/20 at 10:12 pm to
So WB just unloaded his entire airline portfolio when shares are trading at their lowest price point in a decade (maybe more). During a pandemic at that. Just took the huge losses and ran.

I'm certainly in no position to question his intelligence, but this sounds completely irrational. Major airlines will recover. CV19 is not a threat to stay here forever and control our every day lives. We have the smartest people in the world working on cures and vaccinations. I'll put my faith in them over thinking the landscape of flying commercial being changed forever.

DAL is a huge value buy right now, imo. For the LT anyway. Gains will be made *fingers crossed*
Posted by hiltacular
NYC
Member since Jan 2011
20204 posts
Posted on 5/2/20 at 10:19 pm to
quote:

Demand for air travel isn't going anywhere


It will take years for demand to reach pre-covid levels. I am not sure business travel will ever go back to the level it was at. International will take a major beating too.
Posted by southernelite
Houston, TX
Member since Sep 2009
53563 posts
Posted on 5/2/20 at 10:22 pm to
So Buffett, known for being one of the most rational investors of all time and has some of the smartest people in the world working and analyzing things for dumps airlines stock, and you all are over being shortsighted and saying that airlines will recover like they haven’t lost 90% of air travel for six weeks and are looking at a long road to recovery. By all means, the Money Board is smarter than Buffett though.

I disagree with him a lot of times but there has to be something to this move.
Posted by cave canem
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
12186 posts
Posted on 5/2/20 at 10:37 pm to
quote:

I disagree with him a lot of times but there has to be something to this move.



It has been discussed here for weeks but some folks simply dont want to hear the truth.

The major airlines will survive, the investors equity will be wiped out in bankruptcy, this song and dance has happened before with some of these companies.

See below from 2007,

LINK

quote:

Regular trading in the new stock is expected to begin on the New York Stock Exchange on May 3 under the symbol “DAL”.

Delta’s old shares, which had been trading over-the-counter, are being canceled. Holders of these shares will receive nothing under the reorganization plan, the company said.





This post was edited on 5/2/20 at 11:18 pm
Posted by Lgrnwd
Member since Jan 2018
8736 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 4:26 am to
Doesn’t Buffet realize this a “buying opportunity of a lifetime”?

If Buffet read the MT board he would see things so much more clearly. Like how Royal Dutch Shell will never cut their dividend.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
33505 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 8:19 am to
Overreaction. Airlines are by far the best mode of transportation for the public over long distances. People won’t stop going on vacation. The big difference will be businesses doing more Skype or Zoom calls instead of face to face meetings when air travel would be required. Airlines that rely on first class and business class passengers will suffer much more than airlines that are primarily personal use and economy class. American, United, and Delta come out of this a lot worse than Southwest or Spirit or other budget airlines

Bankruptcies and elimination of stock equity are absolutely a possibility. But I’d say it’s very unlikely for Southwest. If I invested in just one airline (which I have) its Southwest. They’ve got the balance sheet to whether the storm

Edit: anyone saying “Buffett is smarter than Money Talk” also needs to consider that Buffett knows his influence on the market. This could be a play to influence the market. Berkshire Hathaway could potentially buy an airline, maybe he’s looking to kill the stock price and buy one in bankruptcy. He obviously has the cash on hand to do it, but he’d be looking to get the bottom dollar price
This post was edited on 5/3/20 at 8:26 am
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
33505 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 8:34 am to
quote:

Doesn’t Buffet realize this a “buying opportunity of a lifetime”? If Buffet read the MT board he would see things so much more clearly. Like how Royal Dutch Shell will never cut their dividend.

Buffett is using his influence on the market to get the best price. Goldman Sachs and others do this as well. Tell the market what you want them to hear, the market will react to what you say, then you profit from it
Posted by cave canem
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
12186 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 8:48 am to
quote:

Upperdecker



Best of luck old chap
Posted by Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
4934 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 8:50 am to
Here’s the thing with Buffet, whether he’s really a genius or not, he has the financial strength and popularity to make it always seem like it was a good move.
Posted by Lgrnwd
Member since Jan 2018
8736 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 8:57 am to
Possibly. These big players do that a lot. But don’t think that’s what is going on here.

These big airline stocks are already down 50-60% since this started. And most are at 10-15 year lows. Even the best of the bunch Southwest is at a 5 year low.

If Buffet and his people really think Airlines are a good investment right now he could just throw a boat load of money into them at these prices and make a killing.

Manipulating the market seems unnecessary in this situation. But who knows

This post was edited on 5/3/20 at 9:20 am
Posted by cave canem
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
12186 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 9:34 am to
quote:

“If a farsighted capitalist had been present at Kitty Hawk, he would have done his successors a huge favor by shooting Orville down,” Buffett wrote in his 2007 annual letter. “Investors have poured money into a bottomless pit, attracted by growth when they should have been repelled by it.”
Posted by FLObserver
Jacksonville
Member since Nov 2005
16097 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 9:45 am to
quote:

We have the smartest people in the world working on cures and vaccinations.

Same could be said for cancer and we still waiting.
Posted by EA6B
TX
Member since Dec 2012
14754 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 10:33 am to
quote:

We have the smartest people in the world working on cures and vaccinations.


After 35 years of working on it, there is still no vaccine for HIV/AIDS, they were unable to develop a vaccine for SARS. And other than cancer were we actually have treatments with some chance of eradicating it from the body, for most other diseases other there is no cure other than antibiotics for infections, and a few antiviral drugs. There are drugs to counteract the effects of heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, and many other diseases, but you will still have the disease.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
33505 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:14 am to
If Buffett announced he was investing heavily in airline stocks, they’d go up big. Why not do the opposite to get them as low as possible, and get that extra margin? Pretty sure he’s done this before
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
44906 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:15 am to
quote:

Exactly. People are still going to need to fly when this is all said and done.


Watching CNBC a few weeks ago, they reported that the Airlines target to reach 75% pre-virus travel is 3-5 years. I'm not sure if that was worldwide or domestic.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
33505 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:15 am to
quote:

Best of luck old chap

Thanks. I put my money in low so I’m doing fine. I don’t expect any huge drops from this point on
Posted by TigerDeBaiter
Member since Dec 2010
10728 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 11:52 am to
quote:

Here’s the thing with Buffet, whether he’s really a genius or not, he has the financial strength and popularity to make it always seem like it was a good move


Exactly.

If airlines do recover he’ll just say, we looked at are risk allocation across our entire portfolio and decided we could deploy that money elsewhere. Nobody will bat an eye or question $130 billion in cash he could have deployed.

And he doesn’t GAF what others think either. My guess is there will be a contraction going forward and possibility of restructuring and he wants no part of that long term mess.
Posted by tigersfan1989
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2018
1265 posts
Posted on 5/3/20 at 12:23 pm to
Airlines will eventually be public transportation subsidized by the government its just a matter of time. Not to mention they are poorly managed. The feds will keep pushing money into these companies until they belly up and are government owned. Although this event is obviously an extreme circumstance how do you adequately prepare for something like this as a airline? Maybe these execs could of had better liquidity, but at the rate they are losing money each day you would have to have a ton of cash set aside. Shareholders complain when there is too much cash set aside not doing anything for example Apple. To me Buffet made the right call. Berkshire has enough cash to acquire one of these airlines if he had the confidence in them.
This post was edited on 5/3/20 at 12:42 pm
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