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re: Ballparking: How much student debt to take on to get $xxx amount in a job?
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:33 pm to lynxcat
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:33 pm to lynxcat
Depends. My profession has salary surveys and lots of historical data. It doesn’t have to accurate. It needs to be relatively accurate. The OP clearly asked for this to be looked at through a financial lens. Suck it.
0
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:30 pm to Meauxjeaux
I’m not sure of your question. It would clearly be 1:1 with the figures you provided.
Simple breakdown (I know you wouldn’t actually pay off a loan in 1 year):
1:1 at $100k. Payoff the loan in year 1. 2nd year gross $100k. 2 year net income $100k
1:2 Payoff the loan in year 1 and net $25k. 2nd year gross $50k. 2 year net income $75k.
The gap quickly increases from there.
The issue is that people get college loans that are closer to 4:1 than 1:1 or 1:2.
Simple breakdown (I know you wouldn’t actually pay off a loan in 1 year):
1:1 at $100k. Payoff the loan in year 1. 2nd year gross $100k. 2 year net income $100k
1:2 Payoff the loan in year 1 and net $25k. 2nd year gross $50k. 2 year net income $75k.
The gap quickly increases from there.
The issue is that people get college loans that are closer to 4:1 than 1:1 or 1:2.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 3:43 am to Meauxjeaux
IMO, if you have a kid that doenst know what they want to do, then trade schools are the direction because it costs less than a 1/10 of college, teaches you a direct markable skill, and usually allows you to get your foot in the door working as a journeyman relatively quickly.
Once finished, 100K easy for most trades and upwards multiples with a few years exp doing your own thing given the.
These days, college is best suited for those wanting to pursue STEM careers.
Once finished, 100K easy for most trades and upwards multiples with a few years exp doing your own thing given the.
These days, college is best suited for those wanting to pursue STEM careers.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 4:55 am to Meauxjeaux
Here's my personal experience. Nobody in my family got a college degree. Parents didn't really give me any career coaching/advice growing up. When I started the local county college, I just aimlessly took classes that were on the 2 year degree plan. I worked 3 blue-collar jobs out of high school and went to school part time taking basics. Around 20 years old, I started at my current company. It took me 13 years to get my degree. My company also paid for most of my tuition so I'd enroll in enough classes to hit the reimbursement cap every year.
I originally wanted to go down the accounting/finance path. Landed a job in cash management that had some accounting chores with it and decided I hated accounting. Fortunately I only took the entry level accounting course, and I switched degree plan to IT. Graduated with no college debt. I can't say that I wouldn't have taken college debt had the opportunity been presented because I was pretty stupid financially at that age, but I am absolutely glad I didn't take on that debt. It's pretty absurd the amount of loans they'll give for careers with no real return on investment.
Interestingly enough, it's the only loan that you are basically guaranteed to secure, that they have no real criteria to hit before entering the debt. They'll strap you up with 100k in debt for a meaningless Gender Studies degree. I'd say evaluate the kiddos drive and financial responsibility. If he's getting into law or something medical, that's a bit of a different animal, but outside of that my threshold would be 1:2. Aim for way less obviously.
I originally wanted to go down the accounting/finance path. Landed a job in cash management that had some accounting chores with it and decided I hated accounting. Fortunately I only took the entry level accounting course, and I switched degree plan to IT. Graduated with no college debt. I can't say that I wouldn't have taken college debt had the opportunity been presented because I was pretty stupid financially at that age, but I am absolutely glad I didn't take on that debt. It's pretty absurd the amount of loans they'll give for careers with no real return on investment.
Interestingly enough, it's the only loan that you are basically guaranteed to secure, that they have no real criteria to hit before entering the debt. They'll strap you up with 100k in debt for a meaningless Gender Studies degree. I'd say evaluate the kiddos drive and financial responsibility. If he's getting into law or something medical, that's a bit of a different animal, but outside of that my threshold would be 1:2. Aim for way less obviously.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:35 am to Meauxjeaux
I wouldn’t think of it as a ratio between debt and compensation, I’d think of it as the chance that this degree sets you up for a long, fruitful career. Some degree programs have VERY strong pipelines to major companies that pay well over time and set you up to make more money in the long term, and that is ultimately more valuable than debt vs. immediate compensation.
Any degree is an investment and you’ll usually get out of it what you put into it, but some degrees give you an inherently higher probability of having a good working career than others.
Any degree is an investment and you’ll usually get out of it what you put into it, but some degrees give you an inherently higher probability of having a good working career than others.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 7:44 am to WhiskeyThrottle
Great question, I went back and looked to see what my wife's and my education would cost today if we were starting over.
I'm a teacher and when I graduated my total bill for undergrad was a little more than 10K more than what I would make my first year of teaching. Today, that same education would be almost two and half times the first year salary. I would most likely forgo teaching and do something else if I was starting over.
My wife is a pharmacist and if she was going back to school her education bill would be around $350,000. The average salary for a pharmacist in our state is anywhere from $120K-$140K.
I shudder to think what we'd be paying a month if we had to start our today. I had minimal loans and my wife had none due to scholarships, being and RA, and her parents sold timber to finance her and her sister's education.
I'm a teacher and when I graduated my total bill for undergrad was a little more than 10K more than what I would make my first year of teaching. Today, that same education would be almost two and half times the first year salary. I would most likely forgo teaching and do something else if I was starting over.
My wife is a pharmacist and if she was going back to school her education bill would be around $350,000. The average salary for a pharmacist in our state is anywhere from $120K-$140K.
I shudder to think what we'd be paying a month if we had to start our today. I had minimal loans and my wife had none due to scholarships, being and RA, and her parents sold timber to finance her and her sister's education.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:29 am to grsharky
quote:
My wife is a pharmacist and if she was going back to school her education bill would be around $350,000. The average salary for a pharmacist in our state is anywhere from $120K-$140K.
This right here is absolutely insane. I had no clue pharmacy school was that much. Then to make that salary. Dang
This post was edited on 6/7/23 at 10:22 am
Posted on 6/7/23 at 8:51 am to Meauxjeaux
Join the Air National Guard(ANG) in whatever state he/she wants to go to college.
Most states offer some, if not all, tuition forgiveness and monthly stipend for ANG members if they attend a state school.
Added bonus, after 4 years they will have a college degree mostly paid for AND be able to check the “Veteran” box on a job application.
Most states offer some, if not all, tuition forgiveness and monthly stipend for ANG members if they attend a state school.
Added bonus, after 4 years they will have a college degree mostly paid for AND be able to check the “Veteran” box on a job application.
This post was edited on 6/7/23 at 8:52 am
Posted on 6/7/23 at 9:10 am to hottub
What are the actual statistics for people not paying student loans off for 20+ years? Idk? I think its somewhat overblown the amount of people that have loans and bad jobs? I'm not saying college costs aren't absurd, as they are.
But I think there's a lot more successful people that manage their loans and pay them off than the media currently likes to admit.
But, let me also say a lot of it should depend on your parents' means also. If your parents don't have money at all you would be an idiot to go somewhere expensive. You can't afford that, go to the best state school you can.
If your parents make say $200k and you are driven with some good realistic plans, then I don't think risking a great expensive college is a bad idea. That's not to say at all that everyone with money should let their kids go to an expensive private school, that's dumb also.
I guess my point is everyone really is unique and its very difficult to look at college as strictly an ROI.
I met my wife in college and we run a successful business together, neither of our degrees were a direct positive ROI but we do well now. Looking back I could have been very happy going to trades school and would also be killing it now owning my own trades company, but I'm happy with my life.
ETA: I also think geographic location is important for certain degrees. If you want to go into tech, being out west especially in California makes a hell of a lot of sense. If you want to work in a big city, a big city school or somewhere in the northeast makes sense. As someone that went to Auburn, I know a lot of people that would have been better off with their degrees including my wife in a better location. Her degree simply didn't have many good job locations within a 200 mile radius of school. Yes that matters a lot to some degrees.
But I think there's a lot more successful people that manage their loans and pay them off than the media currently likes to admit.
But, let me also say a lot of it should depend on your parents' means also. If your parents don't have money at all you would be an idiot to go somewhere expensive. You can't afford that, go to the best state school you can.
If your parents make say $200k and you are driven with some good realistic plans, then I don't think risking a great expensive college is a bad idea. That's not to say at all that everyone with money should let their kids go to an expensive private school, that's dumb also.
I guess my point is everyone really is unique and its very difficult to look at college as strictly an ROI.
I met my wife in college and we run a successful business together, neither of our degrees were a direct positive ROI but we do well now. Looking back I could have been very happy going to trades school and would also be killing it now owning my own trades company, but I'm happy with my life.
ETA: I also think geographic location is important for certain degrees. If you want to go into tech, being out west especially in California makes a hell of a lot of sense. If you want to work in a big city, a big city school or somewhere in the northeast makes sense. As someone that went to Auburn, I know a lot of people that would have been better off with their degrees including my wife in a better location. Her degree simply didn't have many good job locations within a 200 mile radius of school. Yes that matters a lot to some degrees.
This post was edited on 6/7/23 at 9:14 am
Posted on 6/7/23 at 9:55 am to grsharky
quote:
Great question, I went back and looked to see what my wife's and my education would cost today if we were starting over.
I'm a teacher and when I graduated my total bill for undergrad was a little more than 10K more than what I would make my first year of teaching. Today, that same education would be almost two and half times the first year salary. I would most likely forgo teaching and do something else if I was starting over.
My wife is a pharmacist and if she was going back to school her education bill would be around $350,000. The average salary for a pharmacist in our state is anywhere from $120K-$140K.
I shudder to think what we'd be paying a month if we had to start our today. I had minimal loans and my wife had none due to scholarships, being and RA, and her parents sold timber to finance her and her sister's education.
When you calculate student loan amounts, why are you including housing and meal expenses?
Posted on 6/7/23 at 10:09 am to Im4datigers
quote:
This right here is absolutely insane. I had no clue pharmacy school was that much. Than to make that salary. Dang
Had to have went to a private school. In state at Georgia is 16k per year and out of state is 37k. Pharm school lasts what - 4 years? So even out of state at 4 years you're looking at 160k for tuition.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 10:21 am to FinleyStreet
quote:
Had to have went to a private school. In state at Georgia is 16k per year and out of state is 37k. Pharm school lasts what - 4 years? So even out of state at 4 years you're looking at 160k for tuition.
He's including housing and meals.
As if people who don't go to college don't have housing and meals.
I can't speak for other states.
But in Georgia, college is cheap. All you really have to pay for is housing and meals to get your undergrad.
When people bitch about the cost of college, I shake my head. Live with your folks and drive to school.
(How many "trades" workers drive into downtown Atlanta for work every morning. It is the job, and they don't bitch about it).
Posted on 6/7/23 at 11:34 am to meansonny
Yeah, 350k is just super heavy for pharmacy especially now that it's oversaturated. MD? Sure. Pharm D? Lol no.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 2:59 pm to FinleyStreet
Really helpful and insightful info guys, thanks.
He's 1 year in and it's looking like about $130k in total loans and job right out the gate should start around $115-$120k annually.
He's looking at doubling down on school work and trying to graduate in 3 years, so that could cut the loan amount down a bit, but also precludes him from working and such during the year to offset loan needs.
He's 1 year in and it's looking like about $130k in total loans and job right out the gate should start around $115-$120k annually.
He's looking at doubling down on school work and trying to graduate in 3 years, so that could cut the loan amount down a bit, but also precludes him from working and such during the year to offset loan needs.
Posted on 6/7/23 at 3:16 pm to Meauxjeaux
shite just lie and get hired.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 12:52 pm to Meauxjeaux
Get an apprenticeship and get paid while learning a trade. After a few years, he could be a licensed tradesman with money saved up to start his own business vs. working for someone else to pay off debt.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 3:16 pm to FinleyStreet
quote:
Yeah, 350k is just super heavy for pharmacy especially now that it's oversaturated. MD? Sure. Pharm D? Lol no.
Yeah she went to private school in Pittsburgh, so the cost is higher for sure. She said there is no way she would've gone their now for that cost. She graduated in 2013 so it has gone up quite a bit since she was there.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 4:33 pm to nugget
quote:What do you consider "correctly?" I understand if you continue to get an MBA, but are you referring to a general business degree?
If you do the business degree correctly, it can be very lucrative, much more so than most engineering degrees
Posted on 6/8/23 at 4:43 pm to FinleyStreet
quote:From what I understand, there has been a decline in PharmDs recently entering the profession which is increasing demand. Total costs including meals and housing (which someone would normally incur) is about $150-$200k for an out of state student.
Yeah, 350k is just super heavy for pharmacy especially now that it's oversaturated. MD? Sure. Pharm D? Lol no.
Posted on 6/8/23 at 5:48 pm to Meauxjeaux
A better method would be evaluating which jobs she is capable of, then evaluating salary, then cost of education.
You can get an engineering degree for ~$80k, and make that plus when you graduate. There's no reason to go to a private school for engineering though, ABET is all you need.
You can get an engineering degree for ~$80k, and make that plus when you graduate. There's no reason to go to a private school for engineering though, ABET is all you need.
This post was edited on 6/8/23 at 5:50 pm
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