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Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:14 pm to spslayto
What are you even talking about? Jesus Christ, I said twice in my OP that kneeling could never be a better option than going for it.
Kneeling is only being used to show that in the event that you fail to get the first down, you are still in better off shape than had you punted.
Kneeling is only being used to show that in the event that you fail to get the first down, you are still in better off shape than had you punted.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:15 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Kneeling is only being used to show that in the event that you fail to get the first down, you are still in better off shape than had you punted.
No, you aren't.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:16 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Which is much different than punting and then us giving the ball to Hilliard to run over their decimated DL to get a first down and run out the clock.
As I said...it was the best of a series of bad choices. Giving the ball to LSU at the 8 at that point is like giving them the TD. Hell...you might as well have suggested having Wisky run it out the back of the endzone for a safety and then kick...which would have been better then handing it to LSU there.
All bad choices...which is why you try not to get into those situations.
But me...I kick it away and hope like hell I can force turn over or at least force a three and out and put a return on. I don;t give LSU the opportunity to ice me inside my own 10.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:17 pm to crownNbull
quote:
Punt. It was no secret that Miles was going to run the ball 3 straight plays and punt if they couldn't get a 1st. There was no threat of a pass.
Good point. Still, there is a difference between your safeties cheating up bc they don't think a pass is likely versus straight up stacking the ball because they know a 20+ yard pass is straight up impossible.
But you still have the better field position advantage. I'd rather receive a kickoff and need a touchdown to tie than be pinned inside my 15 and need a touchdown to win. Especially with Wisconsin's offense.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:19 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
But you still have the better field position advantage. I'd rather receive a kickoff and need a touchdown to tie than be pinned inside my 15 and need a touchdown to win. Especially with Wisconsin's offense.
They got a lot of field position back because LSU didn't put anyone back to receive the kick.
And always a chance of forcing a fumble and only having to go 40 yards to score.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:19 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
As I said...it was the best of a series of bad choices. Giving the ball to LSU at the 8 at that point is like giving them the TD. Hell...you might as well have suggested having Wisky run it out the back of the endzone for a safety and then kick...which would have been better then handing it to LSU there.
All bad choices...which is why you try not to get into those situations.
But me...I kick it away and hope like hell I can force turn over or at least force a three and out and put a return on. I don;t give LSU the opportunity to ice me inside my own 10.
Ok you have a fundamental misunderstanding. A TD is really not worse than a first down in that scenario. Icing the game by scoring a touchdown and icing the game by kneeling the ball out are equal poisons unless you have money on the spread.
If anything a TD gives you a chance for a return/onside kick.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:20 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Kneeling is only being used to show that in the event that you fail to get the first down, you are still in better off shape than had you punted.
So it shouldn't be offered as an "option" to the Wisconsin head coach. You can say going for it and not getting is akin to kneeling it. But don't offer kneel as an option.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:21 pm to crownNbull
You absolutely go for it. If you don't get it, you have 3 to's to try and force a FG.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:21 pm to TheSexecutioner
You punt the ball.. It allows a greater chance of turnovers and special teams plays.. If they had any ability to throw, the going for it is a slight possibility.. Chances are better with a possible muffed punt, punt block or punt return than their ability to get the first down at that point
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:22 pm to BayouBengals03
quote:
They got a lot of field position back because LSU didn't put anyone back to receive the kick.
And always a chance of forcing a fumble and only having to go 40 yards to score.
Both good points. Even factoring those in, I think I'd still rather them be on the 10, but you are at least employing a strategy rather than a fundamental misunderstanding of the relevance of field position in that scenario.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:24 pm to spslayto
quote:
So it shouldn't be offered as an "option" to the Wisconsin head coach. You can say going for it and not getting is akin to kneeling it. But don't offer kneel as an option.
This is a hypothetical scenario. Relax. The options are whatever I pose. I asked anybody who wished to rank the chances of winning for each scenario. How likely a coach is to execute that scenario is irrelevant to this exercise.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:25 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:
Ok you have a fundamental misunderstanding. A TD is really not worse than a first down in that scenario. Icing the game by scoring a touchdown and icing the game by kneeling the ball out are equal poisons unless you have money on the spread.
If anything a TD gives you a chance for a return/onside kick.
I've not addressed the notion of kneeling, but it's idiotic for sure.
I was addressing either going for it or punting, as those are the only two rational options.
With the time left, with 3 TO's and given Wisky was unlikely to convert, I punt and hope for the best. What I don't do it go for it...placing all eggs in the basket of having to make it or it's over.
After punting, my next options would have been to run it out the back of the endzone, take the safety and kick hoping to save time and force slightly better field position in the event I got the ball back.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:25 pm to TROLA
Kneeling? Seriously.
Really only 3 choices:
A) Punt
B) Go for it
C) Fake punt
Given the choices and the game at the time, I might choose C because:
A) Miles is only going to run 3 times when he gets the ball up by 4, so 3 runs at the 50 or 3 runs at the 15 make no difference.
B) My punter probably has a better chance of completing a pass than my QB at that point.
Still gotta get 70-80 yards after the fake, though, so punt is probably the best option.
Really only 3 choices:
A) Punt
B) Go for it
C) Fake punt
Given the choices and the game at the time, I might choose C because:
A) Miles is only going to run 3 times when he gets the ball up by 4, so 3 runs at the 50 or 3 runs at the 15 make no difference.
B) My punter probably has a better chance of completing a pass than my QB at that point.
Still gotta get 70-80 yards after the fake, though, so punt is probably the best option.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:25 pm to TheSexecutioner
kneel? You sound dumb.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:27 pm to TheSexecutioner
A, C, B is the correct answer.
It's just always been done by punting, delaying the inevitable. He knows he won't have to explain it in the post-game if he punts, but if he did the other 2 than he would get asked about it after the game.
It's just always been done by punting, delaying the inevitable. He knows he won't have to explain it in the post-game if he punts, but if he did the other 2 than he would get asked about it after the game.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:27 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
go for it...placing all eggs in the basket of having to make it or it's over.
Wrong.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:28 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:
kneel? You sound dumb
You sound like you can't read. I assure you, I am not dumb.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:29 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
What I don't do it go for it...placing all eggs in the basket of having to make it or it's over.
What he's saying is that the game would not be over. Wisconsin has all 3 timeouts. They could burn then, force LSU to kick a field goal, and receive the ensuing kickoff with about a minute left and no timeouts (I think that's what it would have been).
Basically, they'd need a good return to have any chance of going down the field and scoring in that scenario.
I'd still punt. And since LSU put no one back to receive the punt, if they could have forced a 3 and out, they could have probably gotten the ball back on their 20 or 25 yard line, with a new set of downs (as opposed to 4th and 12). Or, as I said before, they could have forced a turnover, and shortened the field even more.
Posted on 9/4/14 at 2:31 pm to TheSexecutioner
I am literally wracking my brain here trying to figure out why kneel was even an option. And if you think that is the right answer, please justify it and then stop discussing sports forever.
I would have been more aligned with punting if it hadn't been for the D line injuries. Going for it at that point doesn't kill you because you need to stop them anyway or the game is over, and if you do it's still a 1 score game.
The safety/onside suggestion is an interesting one, but I still think going for it is the better option.
I would have been more aligned with punting if it hadn't been for the D line injuries. Going for it at that point doesn't kill you because you need to stop them anyway or the game is over, and if you do it's still a 1 score game.
The safety/onside suggestion is an interesting one, but I still think going for it is the better option.
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