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re: Why You Can't "Stack the Box" vs. Auburn (with graphics/pics)
Posted on 10/26/10 at 10:23 pm to OBUDan
Posted on 10/26/10 at 10:23 pm to OBUDan
You kids need to put the madden game away, go to bed. But while you are at it , you have the best corner in football. Tell all of your db u are on your own, man to man all day, spy(Shepp) on newton. Saftey has to read qb and help. This said, no one will stop AU this year. LSU 10-2 
0
Posted on 10/26/10 at 10:33 pm to Buck Sweep
If you leave our shutdown corner alone on Peterson Island and use the FS to cover over the top then you can get rid of the strong safety and bring in another DL. The Ends would need to contain the run and force it back inside and tighten up if unblocked. This would force the Center to block the Nose and could possibly leave a DT unblocked or force the OT to come down leaving the other End unblocked. Sure there is still a HB left that could be tossed the ball if DE comes at QB or QB keeps if DE goes for HB but you also could have the backside DE that is unblocked closing down. You should have 2 unblocked DE's that could stop the play and if either linebacker gets off their block or free saftey is close to the line, you then have at least 3 guys to stop 2. The key is guys getting off their blocks, and a 5 man line makes that easier as they could free up the linebackers more.
Posted on 10/26/10 at 10:58 pm to OBUDan
Nice job. You are champions of the X's and O's.
Posted on 10/26/10 at 11:45 pm to OBUDan
I haven't read anything other than the OP but great post. Very clearly explained how a GREAT player is dominant when in the right system with a good gameplan.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 2:03 am to Buck Sweep
quote:
Buck Sweep
... Cam, but Malzahn adjusted to him, and had the knowledge and ability to do so.
Too bad LSU's OC & HC don't do this (adjust to use the talents of the players they have).
Aside from the good observations (and diagrams) about what did happen, what didn't happen was insanity. Chavis did pretty much the same thing all game long, and it did not work. 440 yards rushing says it didn't work. The score could have been much worse. The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting different results. Take out the long runs and LSU still got chewed up for almost 300 yards. That is insanity.
Buck and Dan's "math" aside, and Chavis' taunt aside, LSU did not dare Newton to make the pass. If anything Chavis gave too much credibility to Newton's passing ability and not enough to his running ability.
As for poor execution, it is hard to believe LSU's players are so bad that they were incapable of penetration, thus disrupting the Auburn run schemes. One has to consider that other reasons may exist. Such as staying home in the tackling lanes (instead of trying to penetrate). Indeed Gary Danielson said as much at the very beginning of the game, that the defensive coaches he consulted said the way to beat Auburn's O was to do just that. Thus there is some credibility for those who believe Chavis gave the players "stay-at-home" orders.
However if you persist in blaming poor execution all game long (think about those 440 yards), you have to consider that the quality of LSU's coaching left something to be desired, especially in comparison.
Finally, if the scheme Auburn uses is so superior, why doesn't LSU use it? After all JJ... oops nevermind.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 3:41 am to Buck Sweep
quote:
I'm not going to debate scheme with you...I've learned not to do that with folks online that are convinced they know more than the coaches getting paid big bucks. As OBU said, it's debatable anyway. Scheme is highly overrated in most cases...execution, and talent are more what makes things go. Sometimes you just get beat.
Thank you OBUDan, Buck Sweep and others for a most enlightening thread. I've learned much about Spread Option offensive/defensive alignments & executions. The microcosm of microscopic analysis of certain breakdowns of this offense and how to defend it is interesting. However, I think Buck Sweep's quote says it all. While LSU's off. & def. lines may have been "owned" the entire game, in the end Auburn had the better team. Specifically QB. You kicked our azz. This is what hurt LSU the most.
Not trying to hijack this thread. But LSU and Auburn were tied with 7 min. or so in the 4th Quarter. Score was 17 - 17. LSU had a chance to score at this point. Fail. Auburn was then given it's chance less than 2 minutes later. Auburn scored. Auburn won. Defense for LSU the decider - alignment/execution/etc. - maybe. Not IMO. IMO, Auburn had the better QB. Not OL, DL, RB (that may come into play against Alabama) - not any other position. QB. Simple. Cam Newton is great. Auburn - congratulations.
If LSU could have scored 24 points or more, this entire thread may have taken a different slant.
Auburn 52 - Arkansas State 26
Auburn 17 - Mississippi State 14
Auburn 27 - Clemson 24
Auburn 35 - South Carolina 27
Auburn -- - ULM fugitaboutit
Auburn 37 - Kentucky 34
Auburn 65 - Arkansas 43
Auburn 24 - LSU 17
Five of the 6 other "relevant" teams above scored more than LSU scored against Auburn. If anyone discounts Arkansas State, it is 4 of 5 other "relevant" teams scored more than LSU against Auburn. So what you say? LSU doesn't have a SEC level QB. If they did this thread may not exist. Just my take.
BTW (back on topic), we missed way too many tackles. Wow, LSU. Wrap up. Seriously. I watched Boise State seriously deny Louisiana Tech from scoring on at least 3 series from within the 5 yard line. They also fundamentally wrapped up and tackled from all over the field the entire game. They are a super well coached team. Maybe LSU is also, but LSU missed many tackles (not only talking about Newton - I can understand tacklers missing him). Scheme means little if our players get outplayed - see my reference to post by Buck Sweep above.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:20 am to AlxTgr
Notice the 2 LBs? There needed to be more...too many db's on the field...so what if one of em(LB) is matched with a WR..he wasnt throwing much to begin with...we should have forced him to get 217 yds through the air, not the ground. IMO, he couldnt have done it.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:28 am to JW1LL
quote:
Notice the 2 LBs? There needed to be more...too many db's on the field
I don't think that was the main issue.
The main issue for me is the 2 safeties 12 yards off the line of scrimmage and sitting back the ENTIRE game.
Let the DBs have 1 on 1 assignments, and bring the safeties up closer to the LOS.
That adjustment should have been made at some point, IMO.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 4:39 am to TaserTiger
Just let it go....
We should have spy when they had 5 in the box and went man to man all day, we should had tackled a lot better, we should have went deep on their asses; how can you not against one of the worst secondary in the NCAA? All this shite goes to the coaches and poor preparation for the game...
The Biggest problem I think we have is that we have very very weak Defensive Ends.... They have two responsibilities, contain the outside and go after the quarterback...
When we lost Sam Montgomery for the season we lost the only productive DE we had the others get blocked most of the time...
Miss you "SAM MONTGOMERY"
We should have spy when they had 5 in the box and went man to man all day, we should had tackled a lot better, we should have went deep on their asses; how can you not against one of the worst secondary in the NCAA? All this shite goes to the coaches and poor preparation for the game...
The Biggest problem I think we have is that we have very very weak Defensive Ends.... They have two responsibilities, contain the outside and go after the quarterback...
When we lost Sam Montgomery for the season we lost the only productive DE we had the others get blocked most of the time...
Miss you "SAM MONTGOMERY"
Posted on 10/27/10 at 5:50 am to AlxTgr
thats why you go man to man with no safety over top einstein . stacking the box means we would have more ppl in the box then they do , not 6 on 6 . Our db's can go man to man with auburns wr's . We didnt even try , we just let newton use us like a HS team . no all out blitzes , no man to man with 7-8 in the box , nothing .
Posted on 10/27/10 at 7:04 am to OBUDan
Dude, you are one of my favorite posters on this site. Nice post.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 7:36 am to makinskrilla
We needed to TACKLE better. There were alot of plays that went for +10 yds that should have been stopped for 3 or 4.
Heck the 70 yd run on 2nd and 6, should have been stopped for about 4 yds. Taylor took an awful angle and the rest was history.
Yes, there were times when they didn't get touched for 7-8 yds, but alot of times we had players in place and simply didn't make the tackle. Sometimes because of good running, others poor tackling.
Heck the 70 yd run on 2nd and 6, should have been stopped for about 4 yds. Taylor took an awful angle and the rest was history.
Yes, there were times when they didn't get touched for 7-8 yds, but alot of times we had players in place and simply didn't make the tackle. Sometimes because of good running, others poor tackling.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 7:41 am to Buck Sweep
quote:
I never said it was wrong to walk safeties down, only risky, and I don't know the talent level of all your DBs in man coverage. I suspect Chavis has an idea what they are capable of.
God knows when you are holding a team to under 450 rushing yards a game, you dont want to take a risk to stop that.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 7:44 am to OBUDan
quote:
Do I want Peterson? Maybe... but then he's away from what he does best... locking down half the field.
An advantage we dont fully use when we had one or two deep safeties while they gashed us for 440 yards on the ground.
At the end of the day, the argument being made is 'manning up' on the outside and walking the safety in would be very risky. Instead lets just continue to let them bludgeon the fack out of us on the line.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 7:51 am to OBUDan
What crap.
So, according to the OP a team should never blitz, should never line up in different formations to make the opposing QB actually think, should never attempt to compensate for an opponent's physical advantage.... you get the drift.
It makes little sense to stick with standard theories that don't work in practical application.
So, according to the OP a team should never blitz, should never line up in different formations to make the opposing QB actually think, should never attempt to compensate for an opponent's physical advantage.... you get the drift.
It makes little sense to stick with standard theories that don't work in practical application.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 7:57 am to Buck Sweep
quote:
The only way I've even approached anything like any suggestion was to agree with OBU that walking down the safeties and going man free the entire game would have been VERY risky.
I never contended LSU should have blitzed every play but man coverage is a pretty well known strength of the LSU defense. But try something when the gameplan isn't working. LSU's style is aggression on defense. The coach's installed a different defense than LSU has run all year. I will go back to a game in 2007 Kentucky in which LSU allowed the Kentucky offense to have their way with the LSU defense....I forgot the qb for Kentucky but he was a stud well LSU blitzed 2 or 3 times the entire game and never pressured the qb...end result he dinked and dunked us to death. LSU had far superior talent but the scheme was wrong. The following week S.Carolina sacked him 8 times running an assortment of blitzes.
I love defense and the most important thing I learned from when Saban was here is you have to affect the qb....even if your not sacking him you must hurry and hit him. Im sure your not as focused on LSU as I am but the games that stick out to me when LSU did play a read and react almost prevent defense we got shreded for yards and points. The games that stick out are Arizona st., Kentucky, and Auburn.
No disrespect to Auburn they are a great team and holding them to 24pts is somewhat of a success but I don't think Auburn's o-line that much better than LSU's d-line.
You and OBU give the LSU coaching staff way too much credit. These are the same coach's that cannot find an offensive identity. Watch all the other teams that play every saturday and you will see teams with hardly any talent including at the qb position yet they are able to move the ball and score.
This post was edited on 10/27/10 at 7:59 am
Posted on 10/27/10 at 7:58 am to Rex
Agreed Rex. Dumb.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 8:01 am to Topwater Trout
quote:
You and OBU give the LSU coaching staff way too much credit.
I wonder sometimes which TD posters have a vested interest in defending all this blatant incompetence.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 8:06 am to OBUDan
utter bullshite
So you're saying there's no way to stop the vaunted Auburn offense. Why even show up and play the game?
No doubt, a defense that blitzes will get burned. No doubt. But you see what happens when you don't stack the line, and blitz. You give up the most rushing yards in school history. That's pretty significant when you consider LSU has been playing football for over 100 yrs. You stack the line, you blitz, you play aggressive. Newton may break a long run. He did anyway. But you may get a hit on him, shake him up, cause a turnover. There's more upside to playing aggressively, than laying back as LSU did. Time and again, we see this played out in the NFL as well as college. Chavis had a crappy gameplan. He's earned some slack. Hopefully he shitcans said crappy gameplan and plays aggressive defense the rest of the season.
So you're saying there's no way to stop the vaunted Auburn offense. Why even show up and play the game?
No doubt, a defense that blitzes will get burned. No doubt. But you see what happens when you don't stack the line, and blitz. You give up the most rushing yards in school history. That's pretty significant when you consider LSU has been playing football for over 100 yrs. You stack the line, you blitz, you play aggressive. Newton may break a long run. He did anyway. But you may get a hit on him, shake him up, cause a turnover. There's more upside to playing aggressively, than laying back as LSU did. Time and again, we see this played out in the NFL as well as college. Chavis had a crappy gameplan. He's earned some slack. Hopefully he shitcans said crappy gameplan and plays aggressive defense the rest of the season.
Posted on 10/27/10 at 8:08 am to TigerJeff
quote:And last time I checked, we had some pretty damn good defensive backs who might be relied up on to carry out their assignments.
No doubt, a defense that blitzes will get burned. No doubt. But you see what happens when you don't stack the line, and blitz. You give up the most rushing yards in school history. That's pretty significant when you consider LSU has been playing football for over 100 yrs. You stack the line, you blitz, you play aggressive. Newton may break a long run. He did anyway. But you may get a hit on him, shake him up, cause a turnover. There's more upside to playing aggressively, than laying back as LSU did.
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