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Posted on 5/12/25 at 10:40 am to mdomingue
quote:
I do see the nod to nostalgia with your suggestion, which might help some of the folks in here crying about changing the game, like that doesn't happen all the time, deal with the change that has them all tied up in knots.
it's not so much the "nostalgia", it's more that I enjoy the extra strategy that goes into one game vs the next.
Posted on 5/12/25 at 10:45 am to tirebiter
quote:
While adversary is a word, you are seeking adversity...
You got me. That’s an embarrassing mistake. I won’t edit the post though because I don’t run around changing things every time something doesn’t go my way.
Posted on 5/12/25 at 10:54 am to Nutriaitch
quote:
it's not so much the "nostalgia", it's more that I enjoy the extra strategy that goes into one game vs the next.
I can see that
Posted on 5/12/25 at 10:54 am to HeadCall
quote:
Re read, I most certainly did not.
You are correct, I missed it.

Posted on 5/12/25 at 11:00 am to HeadCall
quote:
That’s just baseball
^^^^ that's a lazy response.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:16 pm to wfallstiger
Having a Napoleon Complex is a requirement to be a sports official.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 9:27 pm to mdomingue
Who programs the AI? Does it travel from park to park with the umps or does each home field have its own equipment? Is there no way to bias it in favor of one team or the other?
I am not trying to be a smartass. I just have no idea how AI works.
I am not trying to be a smartass. I just have no idea how AI works.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 10:05 pm to Meauxjeaux
Well that didn't go the way the OP was hoping it would.
Posted on 5/13/25 at 11:23 pm to Meauxjeaux
The rulebook defines the strike zone, and that's the way the umps should call it.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 1:41 am to FightinTigersDammit
Count me as one against the AI strikezone.
We usually bitch about umps squeezing our pitcher or inconsistent strike zones, but that helps maintain competitive balance. The batter has to learn how the ump is calling it, too.
Now consider- if you go by the actual defined strike zone, (I believe it's bottom of letters to knee, but whatever the current definition is)... and you set up lasers and whatnot, anyone with the resources to do so can clearly and exactly determine what their own strike zone is. Sure, there's pitcher height and arm angle to factor in, but that can be addressed. And thus the further you get into baseball, as long as your own height doesn't change, the more you can learn EXACTLY where the zone is for you.
Get a batter to chase a pitch... well you spend a few offseasons focusing on the outside pitch. Or the high or low pitch, etc. You will get it down to the inch.
If you remove all the guessing from the batter, a GOOD batter is going to murder pitchers. He doesn't have to adjust to the ump, only to the pitcher's release point, something he simulated after scouting who's starting and their bullpen.
MLB guys will set their machines to simulate Skenes with velocity and release, and dial in on him. And WON'T chase any balls; it's just whether he can get it past them or not.
And with such changes, it's very hard to go back once you do it.
We usually bitch about umps squeezing our pitcher or inconsistent strike zones, but that helps maintain competitive balance. The batter has to learn how the ump is calling it, too.
Now consider- if you go by the actual defined strike zone, (I believe it's bottom of letters to knee, but whatever the current definition is)... and you set up lasers and whatnot, anyone with the resources to do so can clearly and exactly determine what their own strike zone is. Sure, there's pitcher height and arm angle to factor in, but that can be addressed. And thus the further you get into baseball, as long as your own height doesn't change, the more you can learn EXACTLY where the zone is for you.
Get a batter to chase a pitch... well you spend a few offseasons focusing on the outside pitch. Or the high or low pitch, etc. You will get it down to the inch.
If you remove all the guessing from the batter, a GOOD batter is going to murder pitchers. He doesn't have to adjust to the ump, only to the pitcher's release point, something he simulated after scouting who's starting and their bullpen.
MLB guys will set their machines to simulate Skenes with velocity and release, and dial in on him. And WON'T chase any balls; it's just whether he can get it past them or not.
And with such changes, it's very hard to go back once you do it.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 6:46 am to Eternally Undefeated
quote:
Who programs the AI? Does it travel from park to park with the umps or does each home field have its own equipment? Is there no way to bias it in favor of one team or the other?
I am not trying to be a smartass. I just have no idea how AI works.
The conference office sets up the strike zone. It would look like the pitch boxes you used to see showing the strike zone, but a program determines balls and strikes rather than a person viewing a screen and delivering that to the ump and the coaches (maybe the announcers as well or even the PA in the stadium). It could also be used to determine check swings using similar visualization programming. I used the term AI, but it probably does not have to be that sophisticated; it's just a term everyone is familiar with now.
Almost anything can be biased. Certainly, code can be set up that way. Any biasing should be readily identifiable in the code, so maybe they would have an independent verifier to check the code.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 7:55 am to Scoob
quote:
Now consider- if you go by the actual defined strike zone, (I believe it's bottom of letters to knee, but whatever the current definition is
first you would need to plaster the definition with pictures in crayons on the screen every other batter so the fans can learn what the actual strike zone is.


which means this is a strike

and roughly 100% of the posters here will cry the moment that's called a strike when an opposing pitcher throws it.
quote:
MLB guys will set their machines to simulate Skenes with velocity and release, and dial in on him. And WON'T chase any balls
the reason Skenes is so damn good isn't because batters have to guess the strike zone.
it's because they have to guess where his pitch is actually going.
His fastball has a measured horizontal run of 17" (which happens to be exact width of home plate). While his slider has 15" of break the opposite direction.
and he can start one a foot off the plate that breaks back and grabs 3" or can start another dead center that ends up in the 3b dugout.
And if you watch overlays of all of his pitches (the Pitching Ninja does those videos online somewhere) they all are released from identical release points and are in almost exactly the same spot a noticeable distance from his hand before they go their separate directions.
here's his fastball and cutter.
batter has to commit before the pitches even separate.
and screenshots for you too
near identical release points

look how far into their paths those pitches are before separating

and then look how far apart they finish

THAT is why Skenes gets so many swings and misses.
not because the batter has to guess what's a ball and strike from the umpire.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 8:09 am to GusMcRae
quote:
Great. Then take away the ball/strike responsibility and make them only responsible for the rest of the calls.
But how will purists still get the great human aspect to be part of the game?
MuH uNwRiTtEn RuLeZ
Posted on 5/14/25 at 8:33 am to wfallstiger
quote:
I believe 1/3rd of calls are overturned on replay
Is that bad?
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:38 am to moneyg
quote:
I believe 1/3rd of calls are overturned on replay
quote:
Is that bad?
considering most of the calls that are challenged are so close you need a slow motion frame by frame (the SEC uses a system named "HawkEye" to produce the video) to make a change, I'd say that isn't horrible.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 1:30 pm to wfallstiger
quote:
Was always taught: an officiating crew never inserts wfallstiger itself into a contest which results in them being visible.
I was never actually taught that. I've heard it for a long time, but my personal experience has led me to not believe it. I really don't know why people keep propagating that myth.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 1:36 pm to HeadCall
quote:
That’s just baseball
That is a dumb excuse that has been used for generations by ignorant motherfrickers that are used to just bending over and taking up the arse. That is why baseball has been surpassed by football and basketball
Posted on 5/14/25 at 1:40 pm to Nutriaitch
quote:You misunderstand me
THAT is why Skenes gets so many swings and misses.
not because the batter has to guess what's a ball and strike from the umpire.

I'm not saying Skenes is good only because teams have to guess his zone, he's obviously great. I just used him as an extreme example.
My point is, if you drop the home plate ump's strikezone and make it AI/computer controlled, a batter will eventually learn EXACTLY what his zone is. EXACTLY. At which point he can start to learn EXACTLY where the boundaries are, and eliminate the "close" pitch. It will become something tailored into individual training, "this is a strike on the outside edge, and that is a ball outside".
And it will not vary from ump to ump. It may vary from pitcher to pitcher, depending on release point; but you'd obviously prep for a Skenes in particular, so you know what a Skenes strike vs ball looks like.
And Skenes (for example) would not be able to ride his reputation to get a close call, or get the call because his control is on and he's hitting his spots. We know that happens, umps do give pitchers benefit of the doubt on both things at times. Instead of Skenes, let's say Maddux instead- you knew he was precise with great command. He painted an edge, catcher didn't move at all, ump likely gives him that. His zone might get bigger because you knew Maddux was able to do what he did. With a technology strike zone, you don't get any of that... if he missed the edge by a quarter inch, it's a ball.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 2:01 pm to wfallstiger
quote:
e. I believe 1/3rd of calls are overturned on replay
So after the coaches/staff watch a slo mo replay and decide it is close enough to challenge, the refs/umps are still right 66% of the time at live speed. Not to mention all the calls they get right that aren't challenged?
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