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Message
re: Trent Johnson on Jeremy Lin
Posted on 2/18/12 at 12:19 am to LSUpsychWARD
Posted on 2/18/12 at 12:19 am to LSUpsychWARD
While the list isn't long finding similar situations in basketball isn't hard. Bubba's example of Stephen Curry should not be glossed over. Curry's skill set and early success in college indicate that he warranted higher consideration than three offers.
The list must also include an undersized center that went on to be a four time defensive player of the year named Ben Wallace, who only played Division II ball due to a recommendation by Charles Oakley.
Now granted, Lin did want Stanford. And while hindsight is 20/20, most schools would choose (did choose) the way Stanford did: they chose a 6-4, 200 lb. point with the pedigree of playing at a high level in Chicago over a guard who a Harvard assistant felt was a Division III player until further evaluation. The lesson for Lin is that understanding some things take more nuanced analysis (perhaps something more than "they're lookn at the black athletes dude". . .just check the number of foreign born players drafted early in the 1st round over the last few years as NBA teams try to find the next Dirk or Pau. What most scouts look for is something they have seen before. . .that's usually the big, strong, and fast).
What makes these discussions veiled as critiques of Trent's recruiting confusing to me is has anyone looked at his 2006 (Lin's year) Stanford class? It only had three NBA starters in it.
The list must also include an undersized center that went on to be a four time defensive player of the year named Ben Wallace, who only played Division II ball due to a recommendation by Charles Oakley.
Now granted, Lin did want Stanford. And while hindsight is 20/20, most schools would choose (did choose) the way Stanford did: they chose a 6-4, 200 lb. point with the pedigree of playing at a high level in Chicago over a guard who a Harvard assistant felt was a Division III player until further evaluation. The lesson for Lin is that understanding some things take more nuanced analysis (perhaps something more than "they're lookn at the black athletes dude". . .just check the number of foreign born players drafted early in the 1st round over the last few years as NBA teams try to find the next Dirk or Pau. What most scouts look for is something they have seen before. . .that's usually the big, strong, and fast).
What makes these discussions veiled as critiques of Trent's recruiting confusing to me is has anyone looked at his 2006 (Lin's year) Stanford class? It only had three NBA starters in it.
Posted on 2/18/12 at 4:01 am to LSUQ
quote:
.just check the number of foreign born players
wtf?
Posted on 2/20/12 at 1:56 am to LSUpsychWARD
If NBA teams were just looking for the "next black dude" then Carmelo Anthony would be a Detroit Piston and former NBA champion right now.
Posted on 2/20/12 at 3:03 am to LSUQ
The point is that he was over-looked because he was asian... Do you think if he was black he would've been over-looked too? I dont think so...
If people can't see that race was a factor, then they're lying to themselves
28-14 vs dallas...
Kidd compares him to nash after the game, and D'antoni raves about, his game magic johnson as well...
Its not like he wasn't doing this already in H.S. and college too...
Curry was overlooked coming out of H.S. but after lighting it up at dayton he became a 1st rounder... Lin was undrafted
If people can't see that race was a factor, then they're lying to themselves
28-14 vs dallas...
Kidd compares him to nash after the game, and D'antoni raves about, his game magic johnson as well...
Its not like he wasn't doing this already in H.S. and college too...
Curry was overlooked coming out of H.S. but after lighting it up at dayton he became a 1st rounder... Lin was undrafted
This post was edited on 2/20/12 at 3:11 am
Posted on 2/20/12 at 7:44 am to RonBurgundy
quote:
fire Trent Johnson
Come on, man....This is kinda dumb. Should we just go ahead and fire every coach in the PAC-12 while we're at it??
Posted on 2/20/12 at 7:45 am to LSUQ
quote:
If NBA teams were just looking for the "next black dude" then Carmelo Anthony would be a Detroit Piston and former NBA champion right now.
Ummmm, they did win an NBA championship that next year.
And the failure of Larry Brown to even give garbage time to a player drafted number 2 only adds to the problem. If that was a black athlete who couldn't get PT with a white coach as the 2nd overall pick in the draft, there would have been more of an outcry.
Posted on 2/20/12 at 9:43 am to mmcgrath
Wow, true Pistons did win that year, lol... Everyone thought darko millicic was gonna a beast though, but he was never any good....
However, I dont think comparing 7 foot europeans to american born asian/white/non-black american players with game gettn passed on is the same thing...
However, I dont think comparing 7 foot europeans to american born asian/white/non-black american players with game gettn passed on is the same thing...
Posted on 2/20/12 at 9:54 am to White Tiger
quote:
Donnie Nelson found the man, but did not sign him. Watch how he gets benched when CA returns.
Wow.. U do know that Lin plays PG right??? Definitely not getting benched
Posted on 2/20/12 at 10:01 am to mmcgrath
Hasheem Thabeet wished the world you describe was real.
Posted on 2/20/12 at 10:02 am to swagsurfin7
People are making a big issue of his being overlooked coming out of high school, when he was a skinny 17-year-old.
The real issue is him being undrafted, when he was a grown man with years of film and evaluations available.
The real issue is him being undrafted, when he was a grown man with years of film and evaluations available.
Posted on 2/20/12 at 10:09 am to P bean
I've already given you an example of an undrafted black player that people obviously missed on, Ben Wallace. So whether you think it would happen or not is irrelevant, history shows that it has happened.
Beyond that, what seems to be missing here is that ultimately the system worked. Unrecruited, undrafted and Lin was still able to earn his way to NBA starter. That's the story here.
Beyond that, what seems to be missing here is that ultimately the system worked. Unrecruited, undrafted and Lin was still able to earn his way to NBA starter. That's the story here.
Posted on 2/20/12 at 10:24 am to LSUQ
Wallace got passed on bc he was barely 6-6 and 1/2 in real life, whether they listed him bigger or not... Tweeners get passed on all the time...
You have obviously missed the point of this thread and all the news coverage on jeremy lin... The point is not that he system worked, but moreso how close this nba player went to being totally unnoticed, which we all know is mostly based off of his ethnicity.... Thats the story here dude, open your eyes and your brain
You have obviously missed the point of this thread and all the news coverage on jeremy lin... The point is not that he system worked, but moreso how close this nba player went to being totally unnoticed, which we all know is mostly based off of his ethnicity.... Thats the story here dude, open your eyes and your brain
This post was edited on 2/20/12 at 10:25 am
Posted on 2/20/12 at 11:16 am to P bean
You'll forgive me if I choose to think for myself and not parrot news coverage. . .in spite of my closed eyes and mind.
It just seems to me the statement "how close this NBA player went to being totally unnoticed" indicates that the system works. Trent plus 300 other scholarship granting institutions missed him, scouting services missed him, and yet instead of having to make a career in the D league or oversees, as many have done with much better college pedigrees, he took the opportunities given to him and made the best of them.
So even if his ethnicity was a hindrance (and I'll ignore the fact that the first non-caucasian NBA player was Japanese American, I can acknowledge that you are perhaps commenting on a more recent trend), the system allowed him to overcome it. No marches, no change in legislation, just a guy, his game, and a ball.
It just seems to me the statement "how close this NBA player went to being totally unnoticed" indicates that the system works. Trent plus 300 other scholarship granting institutions missed him, scouting services missed him, and yet instead of having to make a career in the D league or oversees, as many have done with much better college pedigrees, he took the opportunities given to him and made the best of them.
So even if his ethnicity was a hindrance (and I'll ignore the fact that the first non-caucasian NBA player was Japanese American, I can acknowledge that you are perhaps commenting on a more recent trend), the system allowed him to overcome it. No marches, no change in legislation, just a guy, his game, and a ball.
Posted on 2/20/12 at 11:34 am to LSUQ
Lsuq, your an idiot... Even NY admittedly was about to cut Lin... Lin himself admits that several times he wanted to give up and almost did, thought about not even playing in college an givn up on nba
And he had a flukish set of circumstamces that allowed him to get his chance... The point is that the system did not work, and almost totally missed on a potential stud NBA player, because he's asian... That's a part of the mania that has surrounded all this...
And my point is that if he were a black player he wouldnt have been overlooked like that...
Try to keep up dummy
And he had a flukish set of circumstamces that allowed him to get his chance... The point is that the system did not work, and almost totally missed on a potential stud NBA player, because he's asian... That's a part of the mania that has surrounded all this...
And my point is that if he were a black player he wouldnt have been overlooked like that...
Try to keep up dummy
Posted on 2/20/12 at 11:45 am to Bubba Hotep
Yeah exactly
There is a ton of stupid in this thread
Lin was a good HS player that benefitted from four years of coaching and experience at Harvard to get good enough to get cut by two NBA teams. In getting cut and learning about his position at the NBA level he got good enough to exploit the opportunity against the Nets. That being said, Lin admitted he played scared before with the rockets and warriors and he realized that being aggressive with guns blazing was the only way to go out as a knick. If that wasn't enough and he still got cut then so be it.
Lin today is a culmination of the coaching, experience and development of the last 8 years. Let's stop acting like Lin 2012 = Lin in HS and that all of these coaches and GMs are stupid
And one other thing, dantoni was out of PGs and he runs a PG dominant system. So Lin was in the right place at the right time with the right coach that allowed him to shoot a ton, create and also have a ton of TOs. Dantoni is used to his PG over dribbling and turning the ball over in exchange for creating easy shots for his bigs. Right place, right time, right system
There is a ton of stupid in this thread
Lin was a good HS player that benefitted from four years of coaching and experience at Harvard to get good enough to get cut by two NBA teams. In getting cut and learning about his position at the NBA level he got good enough to exploit the opportunity against the Nets. That being said, Lin admitted he played scared before with the rockets and warriors and he realized that being aggressive with guns blazing was the only way to go out as a knick. If that wasn't enough and he still got cut then so be it.
Lin today is a culmination of the coaching, experience and development of the last 8 years. Let's stop acting like Lin 2012 = Lin in HS and that all of these coaches and GMs are stupid
And one other thing, dantoni was out of PGs and he runs a PG dominant system. So Lin was in the right place at the right time with the right coach that allowed him to shoot a ton, create and also have a ton of TOs. Dantoni is used to his PG over dribbling and turning the ball over in exchange for creating easy shots for his bigs. Right place, right time, right system
Posted on 2/20/12 at 11:51 am to P bean
Dude, the Chinaman is not the issue.
Posted on 2/20/12 at 11:57 am to supatigah
No player currently in nba is the same player he was in high school...
Of course Lin improved.. But in H.S. he was dominant and a state champion in Cali... In college he was all-ivy league and player of the year runner-up his senior year and dropped 30 on Uconn... And now in NBA he's still doing his thing
Lin was always good, and most of those college coaches and scouts and nba gm's and scouts have already admitted they blew it evaluating Lin... If they can admit they missed on this kid, why cant you admit they did? Besides, you guys obviously dont follow the NBA or basketball that hard and do not know wtf your talking about...
Of course Lin improved.. But in H.S. he was dominant and a state champion in Cali... In college he was all-ivy league and player of the year runner-up his senior year and dropped 30 on Uconn... And now in NBA he's still doing his thing
Lin was always good, and most of those college coaches and scouts and nba gm's and scouts have already admitted they blew it evaluating Lin... If they can admit they missed on this kid, why cant you admit they did? Besides, you guys obviously dont follow the NBA or basketball that hard and do not know wtf your talking about...
Posted on 2/20/12 at 12:01 pm to P bean
quote:
Besides, you guys obviously dont follow the NBA or basketball that hard and do not know wtf your talking about...
did you really just say this to supa?
Posted on 2/20/12 at 12:06 pm to P bean
He wasn't dominant in HS
He was a very good player
He was a very good player in college
He wasn't dominant
Unless you consider dominating the ivy league something important
There are only two rounds to the nba draft so not being drafted is not a big deal
he admitted Sunday in an interview before the mavs game he played scared as a rocket, warrior and knick until the Nets game when he just said EFFF it and started shooting jumpers, taking it to the rack and tossing lobs.
Why can't you admit he is a different player right now than he has been at any other time in his pro career?
The one thing he was missing as a pro was confidence. He now has that and he is showing his ability
He was a very good player
He was a very good player in college
He wasn't dominant
Unless you consider dominating the ivy league something important
There are only two rounds to the nba draft so not being drafted is not a big deal
he admitted Sunday in an interview before the mavs game he played scared as a rocket, warrior and knick until the Nets game when he just said EFFF it and started shooting jumpers, taking it to the rack and tossing lobs.
Why can't you admit he is a different player right now than he has been at any other time in his pro career?
The one thing he was missing as a pro was confidence. He now has that and he is showing his ability
Posted on 2/20/12 at 12:15 pm to supatigah
quote:
The one thing he was missing as a pro was confidence. He now has that and he is showing his ability
Agreed
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