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re: Travel ball as the source of our lack of fundamentals
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:50 pm to choupiquesushi
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:50 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:I am 48, we were still on pitching machines till we were 10. Then the league was 10, 11 and 12s. The 10 year olds rarely if ever pitched. We played 2 games per week and never pitched backed to back games.
if you don't think those young arms were getting torn up years ago you are naive
A 12 year old pitcher now adays will have thrown 4000 pitches combined if he was pitching at 9, 10 and 11. Provided there were 12 tourneys played thru the fall and Spring. Throw 80 pitches a weekend and that is 1000 pitches a year. This doesnt include warm ups, warm up pitches or practice.
35 years ago that same pitcher would have a third of that use.
2
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:56 pm to Jim Rockford
It’s time for a resurgence of rec baseball, but that will take a big-time commitment from cities, and I don’t see that happening.
But travel ball will continue to grow until rec ball gets it shite together.
But travel ball will continue to grow until rec ball gets it shite together.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 12:59 pm to roger79
quote:
You want to bunt for a hit? Go for it. If you're bunting to move runners over, you're doing it wrong.
It's liken Earl Weaver said, "When you play for one run that is all you get."
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:01 pm to tigerfoot
quote:The ones that are do not have daddy's or uncle's or mom's boyfriend as coaches..... they have guys that know better and are focused on preparing kids for HS not winning a cheap trophy....
But please answer honestly, are all teams doing it that way?
the rules probably keep many honest... but many find ways around it... either way it was very prevalent years ago too..(arm injuries)...many of those kid simply quit baseball
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:08 pm to tigerfoot
quote:my son did not throw 80 pitches a weekend until High school........
Throw 80 pitches a weekend and that is 1000 pitches a year.
I'm 53 never saw or heard of machine pitch leagues until I was long past playing baseball...
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:12 pm to tigerfoot
quote:80 pitches a game for 20 games.... is more.. over a shorter time frame too.. and that is what used to happen... even in organized LL
Throw 80 pitches a weekend and that is 1000 pitches a year. This doesnt include warm ups, warm up pitches or practice.
35 years ago that same pitcher would have a third of that use.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:22 pm to ibleedprplngld
quote:Nope. Those boys would be all stars.
Too many parents are offended when their kid has to play outfield or bat in the back end of a lineup. That's why there are so damn many travel teams now.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:30 pm to choupiquesushi
Ok, these are three different things, I believe.
The OP...no. As someone else mentioned, fundamentals not learned in travel ball seems silly and should not be an issue by the time they reach college.
Yes, a disproportionate number of travel ball parents are annoying as hell.
The bigger issue that I have with travel ball is the amount of strain that it puts on bodies that aren't ready to handle it, and it goes beyond pitching. I've seen a lot of kids with hip and other joint issues from catching and the repetitive motion from playing the same sport all of the time too early in their physical development. Kids can specialize later, let them play and learn multiple sports for the fun of it and specialize when they get closer to High School.
The OP...no. As someone else mentioned, fundamentals not learned in travel ball seems silly and should not be an issue by the time they reach college.
Yes, a disproportionate number of travel ball parents are annoying as hell.
The bigger issue that I have with travel ball is the amount of strain that it puts on bodies that aren't ready to handle it, and it goes beyond pitching. I've seen a lot of kids with hip and other joint issues from catching and the repetitive motion from playing the same sport all of the time too early in their physical development. Kids can specialize later, let them play and learn multiple sports for the fun of it and specialize when they get closer to High School.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:32 pm to Jim Rockford
Do they not play travel ball in Oregon?
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:33 pm to TigerScribe
quote:it started on the west coast
Travel ball as the source of our lack of fundamentals
Do they not play travel ball in Oregon?
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:36 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
Choupique Sushi
That's just nasty. It's bad enough fried
This post was edited on 6/4/18 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 6/4/18 at 1:58 pm to ffishstik
quote:must be handled correctly... Not nasty.. not by any stretch.....
That's just nasty. It's bad enough fried
Posted on 6/4/18 at 2:30 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:No, that is not correct. Rec leagues rarely play more than 12-15 games. In Dixie a pitcher cant throw more than 8 innings per week and even at that must have a rest period between that would exclude them from pitching in back to back days.
80 pitches a game for 20 games.... is more.. over a shorter time frame too.. and that is what used to happen... even in organized LL
Your argument of less exposure and fatigue is just wrong.
I have never seen a coach say they were over utilizing a kids arm and they are almost all doing that. It is the nature of the beast. Ever seen a team just forfeit because all their arms were thrown out? Me either.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 2:42 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:Take a gander at the pitching reports for the Governors games Majors this weekend. . Many many boys threw for 7-8 innings. One of the teams that is elite threw a kid 2 1/3 on Sat and a full 5 about 18 hours later. And believe me, the average pitch count is high as giraffes asses. Some of these kids throw 20-24 pitch innings easy.
my son did not throw 80 pitches a weekend until High school........
Posted on 6/4/18 at 2:47 pm to Jim Rockford
Miles has lost control of Travel ball.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 2:53 pm to tigerfoot
quote:you are talking now... back in the old days many wreck seasons were 20-25 games with one kid pitching the lions share of games... and dixie didn't always have that limit
No, that is not correct. Rec leagues rarely play more than 12-15 games. In Dixie a pitcher cant throw more than 8 innings per week and even at that must have a rest period between that would exclude them from pitching in back to back days.
and I clearly remember walking around the corner from my house in metairie in the early 90s and seeing 3 - yes 3 kids with their arms in slings - none played travel ball as travel ball was not even in LA yet...
This post was edited on 6/4/18 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 6/4/18 at 2:57 pm to tigerfoot
Out of curiosity I went and grabbed my scrapbook from my 11 year old Little League year. Played 17 total games including the post season tournament.
Our pitching breakdown went like:
Pitcher A: 38 innings, 15 runs, 26 hits, 20 walks, 67 K, 5 wild pitch and 158 batters faced.
Pitcher B: 31 innings, 18 runs, 23 hits, 12 walks, 46 k, 3 wild pitch, 132 batters faced
Pitcher C (tiger foot), 18 innings pitched, 10 runs, 16 hits, 8 wlks, 33 k, 0 wild pitches, 82 batters faced
Pitcher D: 4 innings, 1 run, 2 hits, 6 walks, 6k, 1 wild pitch, 20 batters
Pitcher E: 3 IP, 3 R, 4 H, 3 BB, 4k, 1 WP, 17 BF
Your notion that all rec leagues threw an ace pitcher every game back in the day is incorrect, there was a 6 inning per week limit back then. And that was the end of the season, they didnt even have All Stars until the following year or two.
Our pitching breakdown went like:
Pitcher A: 38 innings, 15 runs, 26 hits, 20 walks, 67 K, 5 wild pitch and 158 batters faced.
Pitcher B: 31 innings, 18 runs, 23 hits, 12 walks, 46 k, 3 wild pitch, 132 batters faced
Pitcher C (tiger foot), 18 innings pitched, 10 runs, 16 hits, 8 wlks, 33 k, 0 wild pitches, 82 batters faced
Pitcher D: 4 innings, 1 run, 2 hits, 6 walks, 6k, 1 wild pitch, 20 batters
Pitcher E: 3 IP, 3 R, 4 H, 3 BB, 4k, 1 WP, 17 BF
Your notion that all rec leagues threw an ace pitcher every game back in the day is incorrect, there was a 6 inning per week limit back then. And that was the end of the season, they didnt even have All Stars until the following year or two.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 3:00 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:Even if that was true, we just played a major team out of San Antonio that we were there 101st game played this year. 101, coached by a former D1 player is what the word is.
back in the old days many wreck seasons were 20-25 games with one kid pitching the lions share of games
Posted on 6/4/18 at 3:02 pm to geauxdaddy72
It's my opinion going through two summers of travel ball that u would need to bring that 90% to 70%. There is always 3-4 parents, not just the dads, our better halves can get feisty at times too that are straight up idiots. Then where that % moves to behind closed doors. In my opinion, which everyone is entitled to one, travel baseball can be the games best friend or it's worst enemy. It all depends on what team/club your kid plays for. The new trend now is to go year round. U want to burn a kid out put them with the wrong team, they gonna be finished with baseball by 12 yrs old. Who wouldn't be? Their kids not minor/major league players.
Posted on 6/4/18 at 3:04 pm to scott2274
I am enjoying the discussion but I honestly dont know what you are saying.
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