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LSUChamps03
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2006
2121 posts

Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman

Seattle Times Heisman Opinion

Found this interesting in terms of the weights Heisman voters put on different factors to decide their votes.

This guy’s vote goes to Penix (you don’t say!). Interesting to see his justification.

He leans the team award philosophy. In doing so he cherry-picks/ignores certain stats and downplays the intensity of LSU’s games because according to him “nothing was on the line.” He obviously isn’t familiar with college football’s importance in the South, right or wrong, lol.

As an example here re: stats, he concedes to Daniels a slight edge in passing, BUT he completely ignores Daniels’ rushing totals, only crediting him with 10 rushing TDs.

quote:

In 12 games, the Tigers QB posted 3,812 passing yards with 40 touchdown throws against four interceptions. He also crossed the goal line on foot 10 times, giving him 50 TDs total.

Penix’s stats, while damn impressive, don’t quite measure up. Yes, he has thrown for a nation-leading 4,218 yards, but the 33 touchdowns against nine interceptions aren’t in Daniels’ sphere. Neither are the three rushing TDs — or the fact that he has minus-18 yards on the ground for the season.

But Daniels never played in the type of high-stakes circumstances that Penix did all year long. And just about every time LSU went up against an elite team, it lost.


This is possibly the most shaking-my-damn-head moment of his analysis. Shows he hasn’t watched a play of an LSU game this season. “Rack your brain” to find a Daniels Heisman moment?

quote:

How many Heisman moments did Daniels have this season? You might have to rack your brain. But Penix — who just led the Huskies to their 20th straight victory and an all-but-guaranteed berth in the College Football Playoff — has a Rolodex. Nobody was better this season when it mattered most. Not. Even. Close.


Just FWIW, I’ll disagree with his statement here that UW has perhaps the best receiving corps. They’re good, but not LSU good. Another indication he’s likely very unfamiliar with Daniels and LSU.

Although LSU isn’t a playoff contender, no team in college football had a more important player factor in to wins-losses than LSU and Daniels. That LSU is 9-3 and 6-2 in the best conference in CFB with such a pitiful defense is a miracle.

This is another indication to me that he’s unfamiliar with 2023 LSU. He likely assumes LSU has a typical strong defense, giving no credit to Daniels for essentially single-handedly carrying LSU to a 6-2 record in the toughest conference, possibly the toughest division, in all of CFB.

quote:

Yes, he has perhaps the best receiving corps in the nation — particularly with a healthy Jalen McMillan on the field. But no playoff contender has relied on one player as Washington has Penix this year.


So here he just doubles down on his team success over individual success as it relates to the Heisman. Fair enough.

Although a typical Heisman winner represents a team that had an outstanding season and was most likely in contention for the national championship, the Heisman Trust states only that the Heisman Trophy is “awarded annually to the most outstanding player in college football. Winners epitomize great ability combined with diligence, perseverance, and hard work.”

quote:

Winning matters — and that’s all Penix has done. He’s 4-0 against ranked CFP teams this year. Daniels is 1-3.

This Heisman race feels very much like Wilt Chamberlain vs. Bill Russell to me. One guy has all the numbers, the other guy has all the wins. Give me the latter all day.



Heisman.com states that sports journalists are to be the determinants of the award since they are "informed, competent, and impartial." I question the “informed” and “impartial” as it relates to this voter. The comments are fun to read too, wish I could debate these folks without purchasing a subscription. Oh well.

Anyway, interesting to see some other opinions on the Heisman and what matters most to each voter. I find it similar to the CFP argument of “earned” vs. “best”.

Fun stuff.


olgoi khorkhoi
Bucknell Fan
priapism survivor
Member since May 2011
14697 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
You are shouting at the clouds at this point. The votes are in and Daniels will take home the trophy. If you want to argue with reporters 2000 miles away who will never read anything you say, knock yourself out I guess.


Sun God
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2009
44874 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
Eh it’s always fun to laugh at dumbasses like that writer


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561
LSUChamps03
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2006
2121 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
quote:

You are shouting at the clouds at this point. The votes are in and Daniels will take home the trophy. If you want to argue with reporters 2000 miles away who will never read anything you say, knock yourself out I guess.


Lol, my man, I think you got me all wrong. I’m just sharing because I find it an interesting and relevant topic at the moment. I know the votes are in, I know opinions are like a-holes…

Have a drink, my friend, all’s good.


KamaCausey_LSU
Member since Apr 2013
14270 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
The Arizona State game should have eliminated Penix from contention.

3 TOs, and ZERO offensive points scored vs a 3-9 team.

Washington had a Pick 6 (failed 2pt) and 3 FGs.

Daniels had 3 games this year with a passer rating below 200. Penix had only 3 games above 200.
This post was edited on 12/6 at 7:49 pm


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nicholastiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2004
40889 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
Washington also didn’t have to play at bama, FSU with Travis neutral site and at ole miss


CharlesLSU
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2007
31812 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
The comment section is telling.
They’re delusional.


Tiger Ike
LSU Fan
SW Louisiana
Member since Aug 2013
1394 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
TLDR


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OJsLifeCoach
LSU Fan
NYC
Member since Aug 2023
915 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
It's just words at this point.

The trophy will be awarded on Saturday to the rightful owner in JD, and all these guys will start working on their column about how Dillon Gabriel is going to be the next Joe Burrow for them.

They can have their article. We're getting the hardware.


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130
TigersMaul Bammers
LSU Fan
Normandy Park, WA
Member since Apr 2009
869 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
quote:

How many Heisman moments did Daniels have this season? You might have to rack your brain.


I live in the Seattle area and read that crap. When I saw that, I asked, "How do I know this guy has not watched any LSU game this year?" That ignorant statement is how.

My advice to Matt -- Be happy that the Huskies are chasing a MNC and shut the f*ck up.


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DeafVallyBatnR
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2004
16590 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
The article mentions Daniel's and Penix. I read the comments and nobody mentions Daniel's at all. I thought them mentioning Penix winning the Heisman was over Daniel's. But if you read long enough the comments are about Nix and Penix. They think the Heisman is between one of those.


Broski
USA Fan
Member since Jun 2011
68320 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
I mean it's not like we wouldn't be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed.

Local media and fans will always devise arguments that prop up the teams/players they cover and cheer for.

Case and point, we have fans saying we would've beat UGA if we made the SEC championship game because we showed that we are "clearly the best 3 loss team in the country"


KennabraTiger
LSU Fan
Kenner, LA
Member since Sep 2013
6374 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
He writes “it lost” instead of “they lost.” I think that’s weird.


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LSUChamps03
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2006
2121 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
quote:

The article mentions Daniel's and Penix. I read the comments and nobody mentions Daniel's at all. I thought them mentioning Penix winning the Heisman was over Daniel's. But if you read long enough the comments are about Nix and Penix. They think the Heisman is between one of those.


Interesting point. I wonder if that’s because of the conference and regional rivalry vs UW and Oregon? I suspect fans in the NW aren’t as nationally aware of CFB as those of us in the South. Do they watch football outside of their teams’ games? I know Oregon and UW aren’t new to being big-time players on the national stage. But I wonder how much football other than their own teams they watch.


LSUChamps03
LSU Fan
Member since Feb 2006
2121 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
quote:

I mean it's not like we wouldn't be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed.


Bingo, such an interesting psychological part of this.

I wondered if I’d be fighting on the side of his argument if the roles were reversed. I’d like to think I’d be able to see what Daniels had done and put aside my bias and take the position he’s clearly the best player, and that’s more important vs my team being undefeated with a deserving player.

But honestly I think I’d be making the argument for my guy, because he’s the best player on one of the best teams. Hell, I don’t know.

Maybe it’s a basic instinct of defending your own, protecting your own family.
This post was edited on 12/6 at 9:13 pm


TigerLawProf
Member since Aug 2013
135 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
quote:

But if you read long enough the comments are about Nix and Penix. They think the Heisman is between one of those.


Interesting point. I wonder if that’s because of the conference and regional rivalry vs UW and Oregon?

It's more subtle than that. By talking g down JD, they justify ranking JD 3rd or 4th, hurting his total point count without appearing to do it intentionally.


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LSUSkip
LSU Fan
Central, LA
Member since Jul 2012
17246 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
Two false or misleading statements in the first two paragraphs for that guy. Had to stop reading.

It's not the west coast guys that are going to be big Jayden fans, at least not the pacific NW. Maybe he gets some love in AZ, southern Cal, Utah and Colorado, but the pacific NW are going to split votes for Nix/Penix. That's the good thing about how this vote turned out for Jayden regionally.
This post was edited on 12/6 at 10:21 pm


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toughcrittercrumb
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Nov 2008
2053 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
I’m seen a whole lot of stupid being spewed lately. This guy isn’t the only one that ignores the 1000 yds rushing. He didn’t want to put it because it completely obliterates his argument.


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Tiger Ugly
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
14195 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
quote:


I wondered if I’d be fighting on the side of his argument if the roles were reversed. I’d like to think I’d be able to see what Daniels had done and put aside my bias and take the position he’s clearly the best player, and that’s more important vs my team being undefeated with a deserving player.


Normally, I'd say we would...but I've come to believe if there were any flaws at all in Daniels game we'd point 'em out. He had to do an awful lot to win a lot of folks here over and astonishingly enough I came across two the last weekend of the season who still were not won over.


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KiwiHead
LSU Fan
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
26406 posts

re: Seattle Times columnist’s article RE: Heisman
I would not mind having Odunze in addition to Thomas and Nabers.


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