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re: Rumor that Crews doesn’t want to play for the Pirates
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:39 am to BoogalooCopperpot
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:39 am to BoogalooCopperpot
Good point.
I'm guessing it depends on whether the Pirates management believes Crews is the clear #1 as Cole was when he came out. If Crews is advised by Boras, I would guess Boras will demand over slot, so it could become a matter of who will take exact slot?
I'm guessing it depends on whether the Pirates management believes Crews is the clear #1 as Cole was when he came out. If Crews is advised by Boras, I would guess Boras will demand over slot, so it could become a matter of who will take exact slot?
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Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:40 am to aruss15
And take a 17 year old High School kid over a college player who has excelled and won all sorts of accolades. He is way ahead and more mature than a 17 year old.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:40 am to aruss15
quote:
MLB draft is so odd sometimes. People really will pass on generational talents to save a few bucks
It’s not like football or basketball what look like generational talents bust all the time but the point isn’t to save the team money because they are cheap as much as using that money on other prospects. If the 1 takes below slot then they can use the savings to pay above slot value for later round picks
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:40 am to HangmanPage1
quote:
Rumor that Crewes doesn’t want to play for the Pirates
who does?
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:40 am to Bert Macklin FBI
Crews is a much better defensive outfielder than Langford. Offense may not be as far as apart, though. Crews is absolutely a cut above.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:41 am to Tifway419
quote:
Yeah I get it, but would you rather have 3 lottery tickets on future MLB starters or a near certain All-Star for multiple years.
I just feel like any high schoolers potential is Crews, Langford, or Skenes. There’s no guarantee they get there, when those 3 are certainties.
It depends on the year. I don't think a franchise can build what they want to build by spreading out the bonuses and going for volume every single year. Just by the nature of where you're picking the later guys there is a higher probability they won't pan out, no matter how much you have to spend on them.
To truly turn a franchise around, you really need to mix up the strategies because you need to take the chance on the generational talent at some point.
A volume of "good not great" prospects that turn into 2 WAR guys only gets you so far. I've been watching it slowly destroy the Cardinals org for years now.
ETA: But this draft is deeper than pretty much any draft before it because of the events of the pandemic. This year would be a year to go underslot because in any other year Langford, Clark, Walker Jenkins could all be 1/1s and they're rated behind two guys from LSU.
The top 3 or 4 college players in this draft are better prospects than the top college guys from the last few.
This post was edited on 6/28/23 at 9:53 am
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:48 am to ProjectP2294
Take a few minutes to look at the New York Yankees first round picks since 1990. You’re not going to believe how many of those players did not even play in the MLB.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:48 am to CatfishJohn
quote:
Pirates are good now
More like Pirates are not awful anymore, but how long will that last.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:49 am to Paul Allen
quote:
Take a few minutes to look at the New York Yankees first round picks since 1990. You’re not going to believe how many of those players did not even play in the MLB.
The odds of a draft pick making the majors falls off the cliff after about pick 5.
The Yankees thing is a product of draft position more than acumen.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:51 am to ProjectP2294
Most of us understand how draft pool money works, but it's a bad play by the Pirates if they try to save money at the top, to spread later in the draft, when you have a rare talent like Crews sitting in your lap. There are times when that is a good strategy, but this ain't one of them. Thing is, when Crews' rookie deal is about to expire in a few years after he's made the show, the Pirates will just trade him for whatever they can get. They have shown no interest in building anything long term, so I guess having a franchise player isn't that important to them.
Maybe they go ahead and draft him, anyway, but I still predict they will not keep him long term. It's really a shame that they have the first pick.
Maybe they go ahead and draft him, anyway, but I still predict they will not keep him long term. It's really a shame that they have the first pick.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:52 am to Tifway419
quote:
just feel like any high schoolers potential is Crews, Langford, or Skenes. There’s no guarantee they get there, when those 3 are certainties.
As a Moneyball disciple I’m all about taking college players especially hitters but there are no certainties but even if all 3 become stars it doesn’t help a team win like a 1-1 QB or basketball player does
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:54 am to lsufball19
quote:
Yes. Kumar Rocker did that a couple years ago when the Mets tried to frick him on his signing bonus
According to Wikipedia, they agreed on a number $1.4M higher than his value, but the Mets backed out after reviewing his medical records.
He was drafted by the Rangers next year, 7 spots higher than the year before, but signed for a smaller signing bonus than the Mets offered.
Doesn’t really sound like an Eli Manning type situation
Posted on 6/28/23 at 9:56 am to aruss15
quote:
MLB draft is so odd sometimes. People really will pass on generational talents to save a few bucks
To be fair, a lot of these decisions are based on allocation of funds...not on being cheap.
I actually like it from a competitive standpoint. I always end up hating it as a college baseball fan.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 10:04 am to HangmanPage1
2023 MLB draft $$$ value
#1 slot - $9.72M (PIT)
#2 slot - $8.99M (WASH)
#3 slot - $8.34M (DET)
Pirates reportedly offering to Crews $8.5M (-$1.2M below slot), they have $16.2M of pool money.
2022 #1 slot was $8.84M .... Jackson Holliday signed for $8.2M ( -$650K difference)
2020 #1 player signed for $8.4M, slot value was $8.4M
in 2022, PIT had the #4 overall pick; slot value was $7M and they signed Temarr Jackson to a $7.2M contract (+$200K more than slot)
Pirates have the following picks & slot value
1 (1) - $9,721,000
2 (42) - $2,045,900
2 (67) - $1,128,200
3 (73) - $990,300
4 (106) - $646,900
6 (167) - $351,400
7 (197) - $273,800
8 (227) - $216,900
9 (257) - $184,500
10 (287) - $171,200
One thing I have learned in sports, don't low ball Scott Boras or Drew Rosenhaus as these dudes are Alpha sharks and will make your franchise pay.
#1 slot - $9.72M (PIT)
#2 slot - $8.99M (WASH)
#3 slot - $8.34M (DET)
Pirates reportedly offering to Crews $8.5M (-$1.2M below slot), they have $16.2M of pool money.
2022 #1 slot was $8.84M .... Jackson Holliday signed for $8.2M ( -$650K difference)
2020 #1 player signed for $8.4M, slot value was $8.4M
in 2022, PIT had the #4 overall pick; slot value was $7M and they signed Temarr Jackson to a $7.2M contract (+$200K more than slot)
Pirates have the following picks & slot value
1 (1) - $9,721,000
2 (42) - $2,045,900
2 (67) - $1,128,200
3 (73) - $990,300
4 (106) - $646,900
6 (167) - $351,400
7 (197) - $273,800
8 (227) - $216,900
9 (257) - $184,500
10 (287) - $171,200
One thing I have learned in sports, don't low ball Scott Boras or Drew Rosenhaus as these dudes are Alpha sharks and will make your franchise pay.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 10:06 am to HangmanPage1
One of the cheapest franchises in professional sports is being cheap? No way...
Posted on 6/28/23 at 10:10 am to Got Blaze
I don't understand how this system came to be. Who advocated for this? Seems like it would be much simpler for both sides if the slot values for the first 10 rounds were just set in stone and that's what you get.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 10:16 am to lsufball19
In that case, seems like the Pirates hold some of the negotiating power in a sense
But, could miss out on several good players if they turn them away.
But, could miss out on several good players if they turn them away.
This post was edited on 6/28/23 at 10:21 am
Posted on 6/28/23 at 10:21 am to nicholastiger
quote:
I do want the LSU players going 1 and 2 but the draft itself can get weird, Crews and Skenes need to use all that leverage to get best deals possible
While I agree with the sentiment, the teams have more leverage than the players.
If Crews comes back next season, he will have no leverage in 2024 and will have to take whatever they offer (within reason obviously), which will certainly be lower than what he could get this year.
Skenes is already there. He won't be able to negotiate all that much, because his alternative is Indy ball.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 10:25 am to JimTiger72
quote:
According to Wikipedia, they agreed on a number $1.4M higher than his value, but the Mets backed out after reviewing his medical records.
He was drafted by the Rangers next year, 7 spots higher than the year before, but signed for a smaller signing bonus than the Mets offered.
Doesn’t really sound like an Eli Manning type situation
I mean you're kind of splitting hairs here. JD Drew also refused to sign with the Phillies as the 2nd overall pick. They told the Phillies before the draft that he wouldn't sign for less than a certain amount. The Phillies drafted him anyways, low-balled him, he didn't sign, played in the Independent League for a year, was drafted #5 overall the following season, and signed for 3x more than the Phillies offered him the year prior.
You're not going to find a situation exactly like Eli Manning because the baseball draft doesn't work like the NFL draft.
Posted on 6/28/23 at 10:31 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
Skenes is already there. He won't be able to negotiate all that much, because his alternative is Indy ball.
Skenes and Crews have the exact same bargaining power. The each have a year of eligibility left in college. They were both freshmen in 2021
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