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re: Remember that time Johnson started Skenes against 4 seed Tulane?

Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:01 pm to
Posted by Double Oh
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2008
21835 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:01 pm to
i member
Posted by Choupique19
The cheap seats
Member since Sep 2005
63548 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:05 pm to
quote:

And you know this how? Is it bc you are a person qualified to make such decisions? Is it bc the decision didn’t work and scientifically we have feedback to confirm your opinion? Is it bc other highly decorated coaches told you JJ was making a mistake? Is it bc you travel in multiple parallel universes and can witness the outcome of ever possible eventuality? Please, enlighten us on what data points you used to come to the conclusion that “It was the wrong move. Period.”


24 years of NCAA 4-team regionals data has shown us that burning your ace pitcher against one of the bottom 2 teams in the field is just making it harder than it needs to be.

That winners bracket game with Oregon State was as nail biting as it gets.
Posted by saint tiger225
San Diego
Member since Jan 2011
41556 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:10 pm to
It's amazing someone can be such a pole smoker, like yourself.
Posted by King Joey
Just south of the DC/US border
Member since Mar 2004
12533 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:11 pm to
quote:

It just means that the move to pitch Skenes against Tulane was the wrong move.
quote:

It just means that the move to pitch Skenes against Tulane was the wrong move.

These things just make me chuckle.

Just out of curiosity, I don't suppose you could list every single factor that goes into making that decision -- along with a confirmation from anyone with significant baseball coaching experience beyond the random high school level that your list is indeed exhaustive -- and an analysis of all of the specific facts and data about this team relevant to each of those factors illustrating how pitching Skenes was the "wrong move", eh?

Spoiler alert: your insufficient answer will be "Skenes was the best pitcher in baseball and Tulane only won 18 games" because that is apparently all you know about this situation or, indeed, baseball and coaching.

Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
86758 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:11 pm to
I said we would likely win the regional anyway. But it lowered our chances. I’m glad it worked out.
Posted by TigerBR1111
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2014
7673 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:12 pm to
quote:

24 years of NCAA 4-team regionals data has shown us that burning your ace pitcher against one of the bottom 2 teams in the field is just making it harder than it needs to be.


The great coaches go with their gut instinct and personal information about their team gleaned over months of working with them not on general historical data from years past.
It worked
Posted by King Joey
Just south of the DC/US border
Member since Mar 2004
12533 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:12 pm to
quote:

24 years of NCAA 4-team regionals data has shown us that burning your ace pitcher against one of the bottom 2 teams in the field is just making it harder than it needs to be.

Really? I don't suppose you could share you analysis of all that said data, along with your methodology?

Posted by Fat Bastard
2024 NFL pick'em champion
Member since Mar 2009
82295 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:12 pm to
quote:

Yeah, a national championship trophy

Y’all just can’t let go of the fact that a college coach knows more about his team and the calls to make than you Monday morning quarterback clowns do




Posted by TackySweater
Member since Dec 2020
20502 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:13 pm to
WuZ sTiLL THA RONG CAWL
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
86758 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:13 pm to
quote:

The great coaches go with their gut instinct
No. They don’t. Skip always went with the highest percentage move. Paul went with his gut way more often than he should have. His gut ruined many title chances.
Posted by TackySweater
Member since Dec 2020
20502 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:15 pm to
quote:

You have any data to show why pitching Skenes against Tulane was the best move?


You have any to show it wasn’t? lol
Posted by Sun God
Member since Jul 2009
46880 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:15 pm to
A real coach like Dave Van Horn would’ve never pulled that move
Posted by sabanisarustedspoke
Member since Jan 2007
5440 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:16 pm to
quote:


Remember that time Johnson started Skenes against 4 seed Tulane?
And the Rant went ballistic and then LSU went on to win the College World Series and Johnson was named National Coach of the Year.
I do.




I do remember that shite decision which worked out. You're telling me that the difference between the CWS Champs and the worst record school in the history of the CWS regionals is Paul Skenes? Thank God he started that game...
Posted by TigerBR1111
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2014
7673 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:16 pm to
quote:

Skip always went with the highest percentage move.


Are you kidding me? Remember Pat Garrity?
Skip often put in pitchers and pinch hitters that made no logical sense but the moves worked out.
This post was edited on 7/11/23 at 10:19 pm
Posted by King Joey
Just south of the DC/US border
Member since Mar 2004
12533 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:18 pm to
quote:

Just because it worked and we still won doesn’t mean it was the best decision to make

Except that it is not "just because it worked." It's because it was the result of literally thousands of hours of observation and consideration of this particular team, coupled with dozens of years of coaching experience, and days of contemplation of that exact circumstance, all being performed by one of the most successful coaches in all of college baseball. The decision to pitch Skenes was made by the exact same process as every other decision made for this team. This decision was no better or worse than every single other decision he made because it is the result of the exact same process. The results are not the determinant of whether or not it was a good decision; the decision making process is the determinant of whether it was a good decision. And the results of the entire season (and, indeed, Johnson's entire career) fairly convincingly prove that he does indeed have a good decision making process. And it is laughably apparent that his decision making process in college baseball is far more demonstrably reliable than anyone's on this board.

Posted by tigersbh
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
12061 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:23 pm to
This again, really? Geez.
Posted by KC Tiger
Member since Sep 2006
4680 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:27 pm to
quote:

24 years of NCAA 4-team regionals data has shown us that burning your ace pitcher against one of the bottom 2 teams in the field is just making it harder than it needs to be


It has also shown us that saving your Ace pitcher against one of the bottom 2 teams in the field and losing game 1 is just making it harder than it needs to be (and this has happened…. A lot).

So we’re still waiting for your evidence that “it was the wrong decision. Period”
This post was edited on 7/11/23 at 10:28 pm
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59992 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:33 pm to
quote:

tRant, where sports wisdom comes to die


Saving your ace for the 2nd aka marble game of a regional is a strategy employed by many coaches for many years it was not invented by the rant. Mainieri did it pretty much every year. The 2nd game is arguably the most important game of the regional.

Strategically starting Skenes vs Tulane was not an optimal decision but it worked out, not because LSU went on to win the CWS, it was a moot point after the the regional. It worked out because the marble game wound up with a 3 hour rain delay so Skenes would have only pitched 3 innings or whatever Floyd pitched vs Oregon St.
This post was edited on 7/11/23 at 10:35 pm
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
86758 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:40 pm to
quote:

this has happened…. A lot).
Im sorry. When has any team lost to the worst team in tournament history? Looking at how well Floyd pitched the last 4 weeks, do you seriously think he would have lost to Tulane? Don’t you think the score vs Oregon State would have been that close with Skenes starting?
Posted by H-Town Tiger
Member since Nov 2003
59992 posts
Posted on 7/11/23 at 10:42 pm to
quote:

Except that it is not "just because it worked." It's because it was the result of literally thousands of hours of observation and consideration of this particular team, coupled with dozens of years of coaching experience, and days of contemplation of that exact circumstance,


You are grossly over complicating this. Basically by your standard no coach ever makes a bad decision or at least no decision they make can ever be questioned by anyone including other experts because ultimately the coaches knows more about his team

Multiple things can be true at once, the coach made a bad decision and maybe the fans/media blew it out of proportion.

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