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My 4-3 Defense Rant
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:36 pm
I have concerns about LSU switching to a 4-3 Defense so quickly. I understand CEO really wants this attacking front but based off last year I don't believe we have the personnel to make this switch so abruptly. I'm hoping Pelini comes in and see's the same thing.
The 4-3 begins and ends with the defensive line. You need agile, explosive, quick-twitch freaks to maintain leverage across the line of scrimmage. i.e Geno Atkins, Warren Sapp, Glenn Dorsey, John Randle, Ndamukong Suh, Simeon Rice, Osi Umenyiora, Fletcher Cox, Bosa Boys. These guys are/were excellent in run defense and pass rush situations.
My main concern is our current DT rotation and the size of our DE/DT. Shelvin and Ika will not be just asked to eat blocks, they will need to get off of blocks and get up field repeatedly. Thomas, Farrell and Logan are probably LSU's only plug and play d-linemen right now. At their current weights, I have a hard time believing that Anthony, Thornton, and Brooks can set the edge as a 4-3 DE in the SEC. LSU's d-line hovers around 309.5 w/ Thomas, Farrell, Shelvin, and Logan.
For comparison here are some avg. weights of solid 4-3 d-lines in college:
2019 tOSU: 279.25 lbs
2019 UF: 272 lbs
2007 LSU: 281.75 lbs
In closing, Bo and Moffitt are going to have their work cut out for them this off-season in getting players acclimated to the 4-3 Defense. Guys like Guillory, Roy, Gaye, Jenkins, Cherry, Evans, and Moore are going to have to step in a big way this off-season.
Thank you for reading.
The 4-3 begins and ends with the defensive line. You need agile, explosive, quick-twitch freaks to maintain leverage across the line of scrimmage. i.e Geno Atkins, Warren Sapp, Glenn Dorsey, John Randle, Ndamukong Suh, Simeon Rice, Osi Umenyiora, Fletcher Cox, Bosa Boys. These guys are/were excellent in run defense and pass rush situations.
My main concern is our current DT rotation and the size of our DE/DT. Shelvin and Ika will not be just asked to eat blocks, they will need to get off of blocks and get up field repeatedly. Thomas, Farrell and Logan are probably LSU's only plug and play d-linemen right now. At their current weights, I have a hard time believing that Anthony, Thornton, and Brooks can set the edge as a 4-3 DE in the SEC. LSU's d-line hovers around 309.5 w/ Thomas, Farrell, Shelvin, and Logan.
For comparison here are some avg. weights of solid 4-3 d-lines in college:
2019 tOSU: 279.25 lbs
2019 UF: 272 lbs
2007 LSU: 281.75 lbs
In closing, Bo and Moffitt are going to have their work cut out for them this off-season in getting players acclimated to the 4-3 Defense. Guys like Guillory, Roy, Gaye, Jenkins, Cherry, Evans, and Moore are going to have to step in a big way this off-season.
Thank you for reading.
14
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:40 pm to BayouBoogie
quote:
In closing, Bo and Moffitt are going to have their work cut out for them this off-season in getting players acclimated to the 4-3 Defense
Or, you know, Pelini is smart enough to realize he needs to run more odd fronts then even until he gets his preferred players. Kind of like how Aranda ran a lot of 4-3 concepts the first couple of seasons until he got the NT he wanted/needed
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:45 pm to BayouBoogie
I share some of those same concerns but if we’re going to switch better it be now than next year. Best for everyone to get on board with the system and start learning/training to fit it ASAP.
I think Shelvin is actually a great 1-technique fit but Apu is clearly a nose. Glen Logan will have to make it work as a 3-tech. Defensive end is where we’ll really be in limbo..LB and secondary should be good to go. I’ll take teams trying to run off tackle on us all day if it means we’re huge and stout up the middle..this also helps Damone Clark at MLB with two big pluggers eating up blocks in front of him.
Optimistically, I think we can patch it together this season.
I think Shelvin is actually a great 1-technique fit but Apu is clearly a nose. Glen Logan will have to make it work as a 3-tech. Defensive end is where we’ll really be in limbo..LB and secondary should be good to go. I’ll take teams trying to run off tackle on us all day if it means we’re huge and stout up the middle..this also helps Damone Clark at MLB with two big pluggers eating up blocks in front of him.
Optimistically, I think we can patch it together this season.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:54 pm to OldManRiver
I agree. But the only way to get acclimated to 4-3 is playing in it and I believe CEO wants to showcase the 4-3 so he can actively recruit for it.
Posted on 2/19/20 at 11:57 pm to Minden tiger
I worry about Shelvin and Ika on the field at the same time. Farrell, Evans, and Jenkins can plug for 3-tech DT.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:09 am to BayouBoogie
Your concerns are mostly invalid. Shelvin and Ika will still call be called upon to eat up blockers at the nose tackle position in a 4-3. Glen Logan, Justin Thomas, Andre Anthony, and Neil Farrell are all capable of filling out the defensive line.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:18 am to GoldenBoy
I stated Shelvin and Ika will be asked more than to just eat blocks.
It remains to be seen if Anthony can be productive as a 4-3 DE.
It remains to be seen if Anthony can be productive as a 4-3 DE.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:31 am to BayouBoogie
You’re clearly football illiterate, so I’ll save myself the time.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 12:39 am to GoldenBoy
Thank you we greatly appreciate it.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:00 am to GoldenBoy
What has Anthony shown to make anyone believe he can be good? Thornton has played better than him yet you don't mention him yet criticize someone else?
The OP has valid concerns that were echoed on this board as the hire was being rumored and then confirmed. Our personnel isn't great for a 4-3. Even our incoming edge rushers are questionable fits as freshmen. Short of about 4-5 guys, most that havent been great producers thus far, our DL personnel is troublesome until further notice.
The OP has valid concerns that were echoed on this board as the hire was being rumored and then confirmed. Our personnel isn't great for a 4-3. Even our incoming edge rushers are questionable fits as freshmen. Short of about 4-5 guys, most that havent been great producers thus far, our DL personnel is troublesome until further notice.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:21 am to lsufanva
Not if you play the right guys at the correct times. I’m sure Pelini knows defense and will be able to produce a nice base defense and rotate off of it with the talent that we have.
The 4-3 can be played like a 3-4 in its over and under looks. I think the defensive front seven as a whole will be much more aggressive then before, which I welcome.
We also have some very talented freshmen coming in and Gaye who can be very versatile. Our guys may need to cut a little weight but they may welcome this? Of course our NTs won’t welcome it but if they want to be a big piece of the defense then they’ll do what needs to be done. I think Shelvin and Apu could fit in some role as is but if they want more playing time then they will need to cut some weight. Some guys might need to add some weight but I think we’ll be fine even if we have to play it more like a 3-4 this first year.
The 4-3 can be played like a 3-4 in its over and under looks. I think the defensive front seven as a whole will be much more aggressive then before, which I welcome.
We also have some very talented freshmen coming in and Gaye who can be very versatile. Our guys may need to cut a little weight but they may welcome this? Of course our NTs won’t welcome it but if they want to be a big piece of the defense then they’ll do what needs to be done. I think Shelvin and Apu could fit in some role as is but if they want more playing time then they will need to cut some weight. Some guys might need to add some weight but I think we’ll be fine even if we have to play it more like a 3-4 this first year.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 1:25 am to lsufanva
Because Thornton will be an OLB, not a DE. Also, the personnel is fine for the 4-3.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 4:48 am to BayouBoogie
You make valid points about the DL. Our projected DTs are big boys and the projected DEs are not athletic, prototypical DEs, long and quick off the edge, but can help stuff the run. We have some intriguing guys who can break-out in this scheme. It will be interesting to see who lines up where this Spring and how they rotate. In CEO I trust.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 5:11 am to BayouBengal99
quote:
Not if you play the right guys at the correct times.
This. On obvious passing downs, bring in Farrell and Logan at DT.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 6:36 am to BayouBoogie
The 4-3 or 3-4 are a base defenses. I am never really concerned about either. In the day of spread offense, defenses play more nickel & dime then their base D. Our roster depth plays to the 4-3 imo. Ranking the position group strength, think it would be DB, DL, then LB. That leans to a 4-3 base defense.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 6:46 am to BayouBoogie
The good news is, once you declare you’re a 4-3 or 3-4, you’re not handcuffed to it.
This is not the draft where your decision is binding.
Truth is, most defenses will be 3-3-5 anyway.
Then Saban will return to smash mouth and blow the front sixes up again. It’s an ever changing world.
This is not the draft where your decision is binding.
Truth is, most defenses will be 3-3-5 anyway.
Then Saban will return to smash mouth and blow the front sixes up again. It’s an ever changing world.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 7:34 am to dstone12
I do agree that the smart teams will adopt the spread RPO and in three or four years after all the defenses adjust someone will go back to a power run game and win.
IMO LSU has to do something to create more pressure/havoc whatever on defense. The key is getting off the field on third down... another key stat is points per possession. Somewhere 14 to 18 possessions per game.. how many can our defense shut out the offense.
Pelini 4.3 under is not that far off of am3.4. And we will not be in base defense that much.
IMO LSU has to do something to create more pressure/havoc whatever on defense. The key is getting off the field on third down... another key stat is points per possession. Somewhere 14 to 18 possessions per game.. how many can our defense shut out the offense.
Pelini 4.3 under is not that far off of am3.4. And we will not be in base defense that much.
Posted on 2/20/20 at 7:47 am to mhc4tigers
My 4 -3 is 4 infielders and 3 outfielders.
Pitchers pitch
Catchers catch
Pitchers pitch
Catchers catch
Posted on 2/20/20 at 8:01 am to BayouBoogie
If Aranda could switch us to a 3-4 in year 1 from 4-3 and have an elite defense Pelini shouldnt have issues switching us to a 4-3 in year 1 from 3-4 and also having a great defense.
We are stacked with talent, my only question is who rushes the passer. Thats why I like that Youngstown transfer as a possibility, Justus Reed
We are stacked with talent, my only question is who rushes the passer. Thats why I like that Youngstown transfer as a possibility, Justus Reed
Posted on 2/20/20 at 8:05 am to BayouBoogie
LSU, traditionally, has had an easier time finding stud DLineman, that it has linebackers. So, just seems like it would be a better fit to go to a 4-3 when the Dlineman seem to be easier to stockpile, than linebackers.
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