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re: MBB : Early conference play opinion
Posted on 1/22/24 at 9:41 am to Alt26
Posted on 1/22/24 at 9:41 am to Alt26
What we’re seeing from some fans is a drastic drop in expectations which is never good. What is McMahon’s standard exactly? Do we expect him to be as successful as Brown or Wade or even Brady because what it looks like is the expectation is for him to be somewhere between Johnny Jones and Trent johnson. Jones inherited a much worse situation and in year 1 won 19 games and in all but his final year equaled or surpassed that number. He was fired for lack of meeting expectations but now it seems as though a lot of our fans would be overjoyed if coach Mac can even match that. So far in both seasons we’ve underachieved based on the roster but for some reason we’re acting like he’s doing a great job with nothing when that’s the opposite of what’s happening. Celebrating 3-2 just because we were one of the worst 3 P5 teams in the country last season is a perversion of success regardless of if you want to believe in the “dark cloud” theory or not.
This post was edited on 1/22/24 at 11:16 am
2
Posted on 1/22/24 at 9:44 am to lsudave1
quote:
We are better than expected but still not good enough IMO. I like McMahon but there has been a standard set in LSU athletics the past few years and I don’t think MBB should be held below that standard for any reason. At LSU I don’t want to compete for an NIT spot, I want to compete for a championship like we do in just about every other sport.
So you're expecting MBB to compete for a national championship out of the blue just because we've had recent success in other major sports?
Posted on 1/22/24 at 9:45 am to Madking
quote:It is to rebuild the team from the crater he found it in and then sustain a winning program.
What is McMahon’s standard exactly?
This post was edited on 1/22/24 at 9:46 am
Posted on 1/22/24 at 10:12 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
I'm not seeing the same things you are here, I have been very disappointed with his defense. Or else his defense at Tulane last year was absolutely horrible.
Yes. Also, there is often a disconnect between the advanced analytics and the fan "eye test" but he has improved over last season.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 10:37 am to rds dc
quote:
Yes. Also, there is often a disconnect between the advanced analytics and the fan "eye test" but he has improved over last season.
Wow, he must have been really bad on defense last year.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 10:42 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
I have been very disappointed with his defense. Or else his defense at Tulane last year was absolutely horrible.
He wasn't a good defender at Tulane. That was my biggest concern about him going into the season. I knew he could score. But given LSU's defense was worse than their offense last season, they needed to improve on both ends of the floor this season.
On Saturday McMahon had to replace Cook on two separate occasions with Williams and Hannibal because was letting his man drive with impunity anytime he wanted. That caused LSU's defense to get put in the wash in rotations...which led to them being out of position to rebound even when A&M continued to miss shots. If you are a +/- guy, Cook was LSU's worst player (-9) on Saturday.
His insertion in the lineup has helped turn LSU around. No question. But he HAS to be better than he's been thus far for LSU to win games. Other guys are stepping up...which is why the games have been relatively close despite Cook not playing well. He doesn't need to by Gary Payton out there. But he can't be so bad that the coach has to replace him in pivotal moments in the game because of a lack of defense.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 10:47 am to slutiger5
quote:
Coach seems to have settled on Baker, Dean, fountain, Reed as the 4/5s with Williams, cook, wright, and Hannibal pushing the offense. Reed, ward, wright have all improved their overall efficiency as the season has advanced.
The good news is that if he can keep them in the program, we have a really nice core for next year's team in Williams, Ward, and Reed. Maybe a couple of others (Fountain or Cook?) have another year of eligibility left too? But they are set up to just be a solid team and could be really good if the C from HS is ready to contribute and/or we get one in the portal. We would also need at least one of Ward, Williams, and/or Reed to develop into a go to guy. Or again, get a go to wing in the portal and allow the others to be really good role players.
Long story short, we have a nice core for next season if we can keep them together.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 10:51 am to slutiger5
I was on the verge of becoming a believer in this team, but the last 2-3 minutes of the game on Saturday was a major down moment-- particularly the inability to box out on rebounds and the failure to convert any of the last 3 three-point tries.
Basketball P.W. has been soooooo frustrating to watch
Basketball P.W. has been soooooo frustrating to watch
Posted on 1/22/24 at 10:53 am to Madking
quote:
Do we expect him to be as successful as Brown or Wade or even Brady
In the near future yes. But McMahon seems to be more of a developer than those guys and needs the core of his team to be upperclassmen that he developed. The key will be if he can develop a few of them into stars and/or get a star or two in the portal or some one and done guys every now and then.
quote:
Jones inherited a much worse situation and in year 1 won 19 games and in all but his final year equaled or surpassed that number.
Jones (and johnson for that matter) coached in a much weaker SEC. The SEC has invested in top coaches so much over the last 5-10 years that it has made the league so much more difficult. Thats not to say we shouldnt want to be better than what we have been these last couple of years, but winning 19 games with a Tuba player at C isn't gonna work in 2024.
quote:
. So far in both seasons we’ve underachieved based on the roster
Last year I would agree but I don't think anyone would say this year they are underachieving. Our roster was never considered very talented and imo, they are slightly over achieving their actual abilities.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 11:34 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
But McMahon seems to be more of a developer than those guys and needs the core of his team to be upperclassmen that he developed.
That's not necessarily a great trait in this era of college basketball. Most guys don't stay long enough to be "developed".
Outside of Tennessee, probably the program that has had the most consistent success in the SEC has been Alabama. Now, Alabama's basketball history is no better than LSU's. In fact, LSU's is probably better on the whole. Both are "football schools" first. Both have "old" facilities. Frankly, there is NO reason LSU couldn't have a program similar to that of Alabama. The difference is Nate Oats. He may be a douchebag, but (to borrow a line from The Big Lebowski) That creep can coach. And he's essentially flipping the roster year after year. Alabama is not as good as they were last year. But he lost 10 players from last year's roster. Despite that, they are still up there with Auburn, Tennessee, Kentucky at the top of the SEC right now.
For better or worse, that's what it takes now. You have to get in big time talent, win with it immediately, the flip the roster and do it again next year. Redshirting guys and slowly developing them to blossom in year 3, 4, 5, isn't sustainable because the players don't want to stay that long in one spot. Jordan Wright developed 4 years at Vandy. He should be the star of their team this year for a group that had a decent season last year. Instead, he's at LSU. Cook was an All conference player at Tulane. Doesn't matter. He's back at the place he previously left. Stewart was all conference at Santa Clara. Now he's at the end of LSU's bench. Shawn Phillips was probably set to be LSU's starting Center this year after showing some good play at the end of last season. Instead, he's a Arizona State coming off the bench to play 12 minutes. It seems counterintuitive, but guys all across the nation are leaving GOOD situations to go elsewhere.
McMahon seems to have done a better job in the portal this season than last. That we can all agree on. But if he's ever going to have big success here it's unlikely its going to come from stacking and developing recruiting classes. He's still going to have to recruit well, but he has to hit even bigger in the portal, and repeat it year after year after year.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 11:35 am to mmcgrath
Pretty vague and mailable no? I’ll ask again, is he expected to win 19-22 games 80% of the time like Jones or is it NCAA tourney every year like Brown and Wade or is it up and down results with a couple of deep runs like Brady? What’s a winning program in your view?
Posted on 1/22/24 at 11:46 am to Alt26
quote:
Redshirting guys and slowly developing them to blossom in year 3, 4, 5, isn't sustainable because the players don't want to stay that long in one spot.
There in lies the conundrum for McMahon imo. Can he find enough 4 stars to stick to his plan to be developed over 3-4 years and then supplement that with some one and done type guys and/or some portal guys. He seems to have anice core of players from his first class and this class that are developing. If he can keep them here, thats a nice start for him.
Like you said, thats not the norm but some programs like Tennessee do it well. Maybe Mcmahaon can be one of them. Maybe not. I think we will know next year if it can work and we will know in year 4 if its sustainable.
This post was edited on 1/22/24 at 11:49 am
Posted on 1/22/24 at 11:51 am to slutiger5
quote:
I don’t see more than 8 sec wins
I could see them getting to 9 or 10..
Posted on 1/22/24 at 12:01 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
Last year I would agree but I don't think anyone would say this year they are underachieving. Our roster was never considered very talented and imo, they are slightly over achieving their actual abilities.
I always felt like our roster this year was going to be better than last year.
I never bought into the Adam Miller hype and Juice Hill and Kendal Coleman are genuinely some of the worst players in LSU history. Justice Williams wasn't far off.
I think everyone expected improvement from last year and I wouldnt be satisfied with any less than 6-10 wins.
This post was edited on 1/22/24 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 1/22/24 at 12:27 pm to JimTiger72
quote:
I could see them getting to 9 or 10
I thought that could be the case with a win on Saturday. Without it, I'm not confident the schedule sets up for 9-10 wins. They would probably have to win 3-4 more road games to get to that mark and I just don't know if this team is good enough to do that. However, Wednesday is an opportunity to show they are. Of the 7 road games left, @ UGA is probably one of the more "winnable" of the group.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 12:35 pm to Alt26
Arkansas & Vandy seem like beatable teams on the road. Hard to predict what teams will look like in March though
Posted on 1/22/24 at 12:39 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
Ok that’s fair but we can’t keep making these roster excuses. We have 5 top 100 recruits, two 5* kids, we have a handful of productive veterans and we’re 12 or 13 deep when healthy, 10 deep right now. If you compare all of those things to other SEC rosters you won’t find more than 3-4 teams who have more.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 12:47 pm to mcmaniacinsaneasylum
quote:
I always felt like our roster this year was going to be better than last year.
I never bought into the Adam Miller hype and Juice Hill and Kendal Coleman are genuinely some of the worst players in LSU history. Justice Williams wasn't far off.
I think everyone expected improvement from last year
My take on last year has always been the talent was not all that good but still underachieved. I think both can absolutely be true and IMHO last year both were. There was next to nothing good about last year, we regressed as the year unfolded and we saw next to no improvement individually or collectively that gave me much hope.
this year started out much the same. But about 3 weeks ago, finally I started seeing some improvement both individually and collectively, the first signs I've seen honestly, and it gave me some hope.
And it has more to do than just with Cook's addition, but I've recounted those many times so I won't bore anyone with re-hashes.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 12:54 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
There in lies the conundrum for McMahon imo. Can he find enough 4 stars to stick to his plan to be developed over 3-4 years and then supplement that with some one and done type guys and/or some portal guys. He seems to have anice core of players from his first class and this class that are developing. If he can keep them here, thats a nice start for him.
Like you said, thats not the norm but some programs like Tennessee do it well. Maybe Mcmahaon can be one of them. Maybe not. I think we will know next year if it can work and we will know in year 4 if its sustainable.
He lost 50% of his first signing class after one season. The good news is that the two he retained (Reed and Ward) were probably the best two prospects. If he can get those two to return for a 3rd year to go along with the two HS signees, then you start to see a bit of a core. Especially if he can get Cook, Fountain, Collins, Chest, Williams to return. But you simply can't count on that being the case in this day and age.
Posted on 1/22/24 at 1:40 pm to Alt26
quote:
He lost 50% of his first signing class after one season. The good news is that the two he retained (Reed and Ward) were probably the best two prospects. If he can get those two to return for a 3rd year to go along with the two HS signees, then you start to see a bit of a core. Especially if he can get Cook, Fountain, Collins, Chest, Williams to return. But you simply can't count on that being the case in this day and age.
I completely get your skepticism but for his HS recruits, I think he would sign them under the knowledge that he has a 3+ year plan for them. As far as losing half his first class, maybe he trimmed the fat and only kept the guys he thought could develop? Or maybe some panicked because of how bad we were last year. Just an idea, not saying its true.
But like you said, we will see if he can retain his roster. If he can, then this strategy can work but if he can't then we will be looking for a new coach in a year or two.
This post was edited on 1/22/24 at 1:41 pm
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