re: LSU is not a rebuild. LSU hired O to avoid a rebuild.

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Now that begs the question: how does a middle-aged man who has played football, been around football all of his life, coached football, been around other headcoaches and coordinators, even been a head coach himself not have a guiding approach to the game.

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You know how Les Miles had 2008, lost a bunch of games, got two quarterbacks injured, threw a ton of pick 6s and that experience basically forever altered how he saw offensive football? He would rather lose scared than lose because he tried to put a dynamic offense together.

Imagine the Ed Orgeron version of that. Ed got his one shot when a program stepped out to hire him though he had no qualifications for it beyond "recruits well" and "is a great defensive line coach." Ed made Ole Miss in his image. He imparted all of his impetuousness, his swagger, his impulsiveness, his emotion on that program and those players.

He was historically terrible. He spent his post-Ole Miss time (by his own admission) pining over the loss of the opportunity to head a program.

Now, he has, against all odds, been given that responsibility again. The problem is that the team that represented what he truly is and how he truly views football was a disaster. His belief is that authentic to him can't get the job done. What we have now is a guy who just wants another chance, is scared of what he is, and wants others to mold the team. He was his own Jarrett Lee experience. He has a guiding philosophy. He just isn't willing to instill that again (for good reason). So now, he hopes that hiring some smart guys can mold a team that can be successful. Unfortunately for all of us, that won't work.

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There are glaring holes on this team that led to our loss Saturday night, but because your narrative is that O sucks, of course you are going to pin it on that. It is the simplest and easiest thing for anyone to do.

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If one narrative is Ed Orgeron sucks, how does getting beaten by 30 by State disprove that narrative? Maybe he doesn't suck, but acting like he doesn't after he got torched by State doesn't make sense. If the idea is O is different and learned how to run a program, how does that narrative survive in a world where you get run by State? It looked awfully familiar. This is the "just because I dress a certain way doesn't mean I'm a slut" argument. At some point, if you keep wearing the uniform . . .

Had Jimbo Fisher won a recent national championship or was he a historic failure in his only prior stint as a head coach?

let me guess, Aranda gets the benefit too?

Aranda's performance last weekend was pathetic. If only there was a head coach to help guide him on the game plan or to give him some instruction regarding how to adjust in game. Or if only the head coach could have come up with a scheme on offense that was complimentary to the struggles on defense. The entire staff gets terrible grades. This was Wisconsin versus Ohio State level bad.

All that said, he's had some real gems. Hopefully, he can get back to coordinating a solid defense.

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If only there was a head coach to help guide him on the game plan or to give him some instruction regarding how to adjust in game.

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do you think coach miles or coach O did this last year when Aranda garnered such high marks?


I knew you'd answer the way you did because it ruins your narrative to bash O for something that Aranda controls. We know Aranda is a top 5 DC in the nation. The fact of the matter he isnt playing with a full deck, having lost what we did to the NFL last year. Having Reshad Lawrence hurt. Having Arden Key fat and out of shape. Having to play so many young players.

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How so? And "existing program issues" by a staff that's largely the same....so what did O do to change?

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Our DL getting run over wasn't something that could be changed reasonably by now. Do you really disagree with that?

Our OL getting consistently beat couldn't be changed by now. Do you really disagree with that.

You guys are so accustomed to pointing to a coaching decision or philosophy to explain losing that you can't see a real problem when it's in front of you.

I understand not liking the hire. I'm in that group. But this weekend wasn't because of Orgeron. You can get rid of the penalties completely and we lose by a lot.

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Ogeron's philosophy (I'd like to know actually), is, apparently, hire the best coordinators. So let's say Canada's inability to produce leads us to hire a new OC next year, what then, would you say next year "What we saw on Saturday 2018 was reflective of OC issues...not Ogeron's philosophy, or his gameday coaching. We need a new OC."

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If you are makin the case that Canada is the problem, ok. That at least makes sense and can be reasonably be blamed on Orgeron.

Personally, I think we have real issues on the OL and at WR.

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Does it then not take the following things to align for Coach O to be successful: 1) The perfect OC and DC hires 2) The perfect talent 3) The perfect schedule And that, without a single item, O becomes absolved of responsibility? Basically, is O only a good coach when literally everything lines up? He should be filling gaps every single day to coach around deficiencies, that's what a coach does. He should be able to coach the team out of a subpar offensive line by creating a scheme that focuses on the strengths. He should be able to coach when he is outclassed on one side of the ball.

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None of that, other than a criticism of his coordinators had an effect on Saturday. I have supreme confidence in Aranda. And his unit got stomped.

If you don't see the issues in the trenches, we are just not going to agree.

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People want instant gratification. Woooo hoo, pat yourself on the back if that is what you want to do after 1 damn game. There are glaring holes on this team that led to our loss Saturday night, but because your narrative is that O sucks, of course you are going to pin it on that. It is the simplest and easiest thing for anyone to do.

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Correct.

SFP is conflating criticism of the hire with criticism of Orgeron's performance. It's a lazy analysis.

Personally, I don't feel the need to pretend we don't have real talent issues in order to justify my concern with the hire we made. Apparently, many do.

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If one narrative is Ed Orgeron sucks, how does getting beaten by 30 by State disprove that narrative?

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maU rushed for 285 at 5.9 yards per attempt. How in the world do you. It recognize the problem? Is Aranda an idiot all of a sudden? Or did the MSU OL just manhandle our front 7?

Some of you guys have no idea what you are watching.

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SFP is conflating criticism of the hire with criticism of Orgeron's performance.

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what? no

i made this thread in response to the narrative changing on this board, not our loss Saturday night

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Personally, I don't feel the need to pretend we don't have real talent issues in order to justify my concern with the hire we made. Apparently, many do.

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i criticized the choice and it's bad whether it's a rebuild or for continuity

it's just exponentially more terrible if it's a rebuild scenario (which, again, was not how it was sold)

so O/Alleva are lying or are idiots. i don't care which is the answer but i'd like to get one on that question

hell maybe O is the idiot who truly thought it was a continuity scenario and Alleva lied b/c he's really lazy or a really bad AD