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Started By
Message
re: I’ll set the bar fairly for LSU football in 2018
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:22 pm to Tiger Voodoo
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:22 pm to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
How many conference or national titles has TAM won or played for this century?
We are 7 years removed so why does that matter. Completely different staff and players. Our last season with 11+ wins was 2011. A&M had 11 wins in 2012. That was their last 10+ season. Ours was 2013. Not much different.
quote:
Their defense is a complete rebuild and their head coach is bringing in a new offensive system, one that he has been very successful with over the past seven seasons.
Our offense is a complete rebuild and a new offensive system and OC. New QB, RB1, RB2, WR1, WR2, RT, OC. LSU is ranked 122nd in returning production on offense and defense. A&M is 35th.
quote:
He also hasn’t coached a game in College Station. Our coach will be kicking off his 20th game as our HC against Miami.
That's why he's getting 7.5mil a year. A&M has the #6 SOS and we have the #2.
quote:
The two situations aren’t remotely similar.
You may be correct. Just not in the way you think.
I'm not making excuses for LSU. Just wondering what A&M's expectation should be compared to us.
1
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:27 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
That'd be nice if this was the plan but I don't give Alleva that much credit for being forward thinking.
I think he was embarrassed by Herman wanting to talk to Texas and he hired O to save face.
Wishful thinking perhaps. Obviously, I think if O gets the program back to where Miles had it up through 2013 or so, he might earn an extension and the point is then moot.
LSU has the money and the resources to have gotten both coaches. However, Herman, like O isn't proven. Fisher has a NC and a bunch of meh as a HC.
Not saying Alleva was thinking this, but I can't rule it out either. I think we don't get Jimbo or Herman because Alleva didn't want to fully guarantee the contract in case the status quo failed to improve or got worse.
I think Aranda's salary speaks volumes abouut LSU's opinion of him. They're already paying him nearly what the HC is making. That tells me Alleva might* not have wanted to eliminate the possibility of promoting Aranda to HC if Orgeron (or Jimbo or Herman had he hired them) failed to improve upon the status quo.
Maybe I'm wrong and giving Joe too much credit. Perhaps it's the optimist in me.
Of course I want LSU to win big now. I'd love it if O earns an extension. I just think that if he doesn't get us back to the top of the mountain Aranda is the next HC.
I suspect this to be the case regardless of whether Alleva keeps his job that long.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:28 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
LSU must beat Miami and it’s bowl opponent to finish 10-3. Wins against UA, UGA or AU may be substituted for close losses against UM or a top 10 bowl opponent.
LSU must finish with no more than 3 losses and go into next year with momentum as a concensus preseason top 12 team or the season was not successful. That is the bar for 2018, no exceptions or excuses will be accepted.
There is nothing wrong with this statement. Anyone who thinks so is delusional. We are all sunshine pumpers to a degree. But there's got to be a degree of realism and common sense. Anything more than this would be an incredibly successful year compared to our last 3-4 years.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:29 pm to Stuckinthe90s
quote:
I expect A&M to start off 2-2, look really bad against Clemson and maybe a little better against Alabama with their 4th game. I expect them to start playing better as the year progresses but still hit at least 1 more stumbling block along the way. By the last week of the season, I expect them to be 8-3 or at worst 7-4 but be playing some really really good football. They will play us really hard and may be good enough to get the W. If we we played them in the first half of the year, we smoke them, but since its the last game, they are going to be a much improved team.
That looks a lot like Sumlin's tenure. They were on average 8.5 wins vs 4.5 losses. For the money they paid Jimbo he better get much better quickly.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:32 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
That'd be nice if this was the plan but I don't give Alleva that much credit for being forward thinking.
I think he was embarrassed by Herman wanting to talk to Texas and he hired O to save face. If O fails, Alleva is finished.
I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:32 pm to memphis tiger
quote:
No, fair would be holding O to the exact same standard that Miles was held to.
I have to give it to you people, you’re dimmer than expected.
Listen, I’ll say it slowly, Any coach not named Saban gets a little slack with. all new skill players on offense and a new OC. With two top 5 opponnts and probably 3 more top 10 opponents 10-3 in that situation is not lowering the bar for O.
Some of you talk about cheerios not having logic, but your hatred has you just as blind.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:32 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
LSU will be competitive and when you are competitive opportunities present themselves 
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:33 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
I'm going with 11-1, West Title and rematch with UGA in SEC. 13-1 after SEC championship game, birth in playoff. Round 1 match up against OSU. Sorry ED, I don't have patience and know you have a team loaded with talent, this aint no rebuild! PRODUCE SON!!!
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:34 pm to BayouCowboy
quote:
What are the expectations for A&M this year?
I expect a lot of butt hurt faggies
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:37 pm to Dave England
quote:
I expect a lot of butt hurt faggies
One can only hope.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:39 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
5-3 in the SEC.
This is spot on. Bama, UGA, and Auburn will be tough to beat and I will say we lose all three. The rest of the SEC on schedule does not have the talent to match LSU and LSU should beat them.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 12:43 pm to bstew3006
quote:
I'm going with 11-1, West Title and rematch with UGA in SEC. 13-1 after SEC championship game, birth in playoff. Round 1 match up against OSU. Sorry ED, I don't have patience and know you have a team loaded with talent, this aint no rebuild! PRODUCE SON!!!
Posted on 7/18/18 at 1:01 pm to Philippines4LSU
quote:
However, Herman, like O isn't proven.
This is not correct.
Both are proven.
Herman has proven to be a program builder and winning coach. He's also prven to be a successful coordinator at a major program. What's he's yet to prove is if he can do it on the big stage as the head guy. Texas took a calculated risk knowing his history and a risk that is fairly common and gives them as good a chance at success as most solid hires do.
Orgeron has proven , thus far, to be a sub .500 career head coach in Power 5 Conference football. He's missing 2 things Herman already has. Success as a Head Coach at any level (unless folks are going to says that's all settled after the 2017 season at LSU...) and having anyone tap him to be the coordinator on his side of the ball.
All hires come with their own variables, and there are no guarantees. But what we at LSU did is almost unprecedented. We hired a coach that no other rival would have even CONSIDERED HIRING because of his 10-25 record to lead our program following two different coaches who themselves lead the program to National titles, after a 45 year drought.
Basically, we hired a guy that requires a miracle in order to meet everyone's expectations we all held as obvious only a few years ago. We now have threads day after day attempting to lower these same expectations...something I don;t recall being commonplace during the previous regime's time in Baton Rouge. what you'd get would be Prediction threads, but I'll be damned if I can recall thread after thread wondering aloud what reasonable expectations ought to be for the LSU football program.
FYI: This wasn't a shot at you, Philippines...just using that line of yours to make this point.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 1:26 pm to BayouCowboy
quote:
We are 7 years removed so why does that matter. Completely different staff and players. Our last season with 11+ wins was 2011. A&M had 11 wins in 2012. That was their last 10+ season. Ours was 2013. Not much different.
Well we were five years removed when O took over, three years from ten wins (would have been 10 in ‘15 if not for the cancelled opener).
And anyway five (or seven) years from a conference title and NCG appearance absolutely puts us on a different level than TAM that hasn’t competed for either in decades.
The expectations here are completely different.
quote:
Our offense is a complete rebuild and a new offensive system and OC. New QB, RB1, RB2, WR1, WR2, RT, OC. LSU is ranked 122nd in returning production on offense and defense. A&M is 35th.
That was the story last year.
O couldn’t get along with him so now he is starting over again. He doesn’t get a pass.
Fisher has a proven system that he needs time to install.
O, hell even his OC, doesn’t have a system that they have installed and made work before. O is basically throwing shite against the wall for the second straight year hoping something will stick.
Comparing TAMs and LSUs offensive predicaments this year again are not remotely the same situations.
As for their stats, I imagine TAM will still be ranked significantly higher than LSU this year and I doubt many people would disagree.
The key difference here is that TAM always won what they did based on their offense. So putting in a new system may cause some growing pains which could make their win total suffer in the short term for the long term good while Jimbo gets his players in and is also building up the defense.
LSU never won on offense. We have our defense to lean on, which is what we always won based off of anyway, which means we shouldn’t really suffer in the win column because our offense, as your numbers point out, was abysmal anyway.
E has been in the program and actually OCd in 2016. He knows the players and what they can do.
Jimbo is again not remotely in the same situation.
quote:
That's why he's getting 7.5mil a year. A&M has the #6 SOS and we have the #2.
He’s getting 7.5 million because he was already making 5.5 at FSU. If you want someone to leave you have to make it worth it for them. That was TAMs risk, and if anything it gives Jimbo more, not less, time to win.
Other schools would have paid similar amounts for him as well.
O is making what he’s making here not because we don’t expect the same results as they do from Jimbo, but because he was making peanuts and no one else was interested in him.
Jimbo got about a 50% raise. We gave O SIX TIMES what he was making before and we weren’t even negotiating against anyone.
Your salary comparisons hold no weight.
quote:
I'm not making excuses for LSU. Just wondering what A&M's expectation should be compared to us.
For all the reasons mentioned above, I would imagine getting a bowl game and win which would put them around 7-8 wins would be good enough with the Ags so long as his recruiting stays high for next class.
Season 2 they will probably expect improvement and challenging for a NY6 Bowl (like we should be this year with O), with a real shot at Atlanta by year 3.
This post was edited on 7/18/18 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 7/18/18 at 1:34 pm to tom
quote:
We supposedly hired Ed Orgeron instead of a real candidate for the sake of continuity, so the rebuild excuses are especially worthless.
also, why would we be content with O netting the same results as Miles if there never was a "rebuild" and the continuity was all the same? I don't buy this "8-9 wins is okay" narrative. Those results literally got the last coach we had fired, among other factors.
Still. CEO is who he is, but that doesn't mean we need to lower our expectations.
quote:
Fair would be 10+ wins and in the hunt for the conference championship and playoff.
this.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 1:55 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
Listen, I’ll say it slowly, Any coach not named Saban gets a little slack with. all new skill players on offense and a new OC.
So wait...Ed Orgegon hand picks Matt Canada to be the first big name hire he makes at LSU and it fails spectacularly and we're on the hook for his buyout after firing him after year one...and he now gets a PASS for having a new OC?
Folks...this is how you play tennis without a net.
How about, since he caused that debacle we DON'T give him a pass for having a new system and new OC in what amount to nearly his third year at the helm? How's that work...he makes mistakes that cause turnover and turmoil and gets a pass in large part for his role in the first issue (see the PR campaign that started mid season last year running Canada down in the local media) and now gets an additional pass because he's saddled with a new guy?
This seems like a perpetual motion machine of excuses.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 2:30 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
now gets a PASS for having a new OC?
I’m with you, but same OC or new OC is mostly immaterial. The issue is new starters at all the skill positions.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 2:48 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
Except that the most important new starter at the most important position in the game looks like an upgrade and the answer we have been waiting for.
The guy is a former blue chip prospect and Mr Football from Ohio, had four off seasons and three regular seasons learning under Urban fricking Meyer, is a college graduate and has all the physical and mental tools to compete right now.
That can’t be understated.
The guy is a former blue chip prospect and Mr Football from Ohio, had four off seasons and three regular seasons learning under Urban fricking Meyer, is a college graduate and has all the physical and mental tools to compete right now.
That can’t be understated.
This post was edited on 7/18/18 at 2:49 pm
Posted on 7/18/18 at 2:48 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
I’m with you, but same OC or new OC is mostly immaterial. The issue is new starters at all the skill positions.
All I'm saying is that at some point a coach has to be held accountable for his team's success. I was called a Miles apologist because I actually had the temerity to defend him and not want him fired after the TENN loss back in 2005...
I actually DO understand the need to allow a new coach time to come in and get things up and running, etc. But...Orgeron is NOT in the same position as most who are given that kind of time. His hire was sold to the fan base as not so much a rebuild as a retool. In fact, the top 3 coaches at LSU are holdovers from the guy who we fired! He was billed as a continuity hire. And let's be honest...if the administration thought or worse KNEW that we were in fact in store for a rebuild...can ANYONE argue that the guy to hire to do that job was who we went with?
So if it's not a rebuild and the triumvirate of coaches at LSU are holdovers, how long is enough to hold him to the same level of expectations as the coach we fired to make room for him?
Again...if we had hired Tom Herman and he came in and cleaned house and installed a slew of new coaches and an entirely new system, fans would be foolish and irrational to not allow a grace period as things got settled. Not NO expectations, but lesser ones as the guy we hired rebuilt the program in his image. But in 2018, that window is smaller than ever as new coaches have shown they can win big fast. I'm just arguing that we were told we hired Orgeron largely to avoid this long term project of rebuilding the program...so there's a reason fans have no interest in affording him this "wait and see" approach after the fact.
Posted on 7/18/18 at 2:49 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
The issue is new starters at all the skill positions.
No, the issue is if Ed can’t improve on last season’s record this season, LSU continues to regress and he’s a failure. It’s that simple. He had his mulligan (actually several of them) last year.
This post was edited on 7/18/18 at 2:53 pm
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