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Started By
Message
re: How on God's green Earth did LSU have 6 straight losing seasons
Posted on 11/22/10 at 2:34 pm to TxTiger82
Posted on 11/22/10 at 2:34 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
I think Bill Arnsbarger started the decline. He could really coach but could not recruit.
Arnsparger arguably "started the decline," but not for that reason.
He pretty much hung LSU out to dry in taking the Florida AD, and propping up Archer as his replacement way before he was ready to take on such a responsibility.
I often think Archer would have made a decent HC if not thrust into the position as soon as he was. I know he got a second chance at KY and didn't really do much, but I think his development as a coach might have been hampered by being thrust into the frying pan at LSU as quickly as he was.
2
Posted on 11/22/10 at 2:55 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
propping up Archer as his replacement way before he was ready to take on such a responsibility.
that's still on LSU for hiring him. The players lobbied hard for Archer as well. Saban recommended Houston Nutt, they interviewed him and hired Miles.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:00 pm to Vito Andolini
Archer recruited ok but made bad decisions. Left the state of La in search of national kids. AKA Tbone Malone... We offered alot of third and 4th tier recruits schollys. Also the pipeline to New Orleans was killed. Look at our recuits from 87-94, very few talented kids from New Orleans.
Curley was an idiot and a horrible coach but he did recruit well. I doubt he could have won more than 6 or 7 games but he did set up Dinardo nicely. Dinardo did the same for Saban. That 2000 team had a ton of talent
Curley was an idiot and a horrible coach but he did recruit well. I doubt he could have won more than 6 or 7 games but he did set up Dinardo nicely. Dinardo did the same for Saban. That 2000 team had a ton of talent
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:06 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
that's still on LSU for hiring him. The players lobbied hard for Archer as well.
Oh, yeah, without a doubt.
I just think Arnsparger should have kept his mouth shut and stayed out of it. It is really silly, though, to think a coach leaving to be AD at a rival in-conference school would have the best interests of LSU in mind when recommending his replacement.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:14 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
I just think Arnsparger should have kept his mouth shut and stayed out of it. It is really silly, though, to think a coach leaving to be AD at a rival in-conference school would have the best interests of LSU in mind when recommending his replacement.
well did they ask or did he just volunteer? I'd assume if he just volunteered his advise they'd ignore it. I have no idea what his relationship with Archer was but I'd assume he was more likely to pump up his DC rather than recommending someone he knew was not ready because he was going to a rival school.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:19 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
I have no idea what his relationship with Archer was but I'd assume he was more likely to pump up his DC rather than recommending someone he knew was not ready because he was going to a rival school.
Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that is was a PURELY malicious motive. There's definitely something to that, I'm sure. It didn't help that our AD was in turmoil at the time, as I think Broadhead basically had a foot out the door.
We really were in a position then to get a good experienced coach, and floundered it. Archer's first team was probably the most stacked LSU team in 30 years, up until probably Saban's NC team.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:24 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
It didn't help that our AD was in turmoil at the time, as I think Broadhead basically had a foot out the door.
he was already gone, that was the real killer, no AD at the time.
quote:
We really were in a position then to get a good experienced coach, and floundered it
different world back then, I'm not sure who was out there. People always bring up Spurrier, but he wound up at Duke. Texas, Alabama and USC all had an opening that year and all whiffed too.
quote:
Archer's first team was probably the most stacked LSU team in 30 years, up until probably Saban's NC team.
no doubt, that team was loaded and often overlooked, should never have tied tOSU but Hodson being hurt for Bama killed us.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:24 pm to ShermanTxTiger
quote:
Also the pipeline to New Orleans was killed. Look at our recuits from 87-94, very few talented kids from New Orleans.
this current team is 10-1.. with only 10 players from new orleans(orleans and jefferson parishes)... this pipeline is way way overrated nowadays...(post katrina plus 5)
biggest names on team from two most recent were not from new orleans.....
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:25 pm to H-Town Tiger
Mike Archer gets such a bad rap. While Curly was completely incompetent whose tenure only gave us two good things (the Pigs Fly game and the unintentional comedy of the Golden Flakes potato chip ad), Archer was just a guy who was given the HC gig too early. He's never been a head coach since LSU despite being a a quality DC at both Kentucky and NC State, and coaching Pittsburgh's linebackers for seven years. The Steelers' LB's were fairly decent if memory serves...
I've let go of my Archer anger. Hallman and Dean... they can rot.
I've let go of my Archer anger. Hallman and Dean... they can rot.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:27 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
We really were in a position then to get a good experienced coach, and floundered it
different world back then, I'm not sure who was out there.
It was, but it wasn't. It was clear the tide was changing, though, and as you state we really had nobody at the helm to see it happening.
Basically, you had Charlie Cusimano making the coaching decision.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:34 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
this pipeline is way way overrated nowadays...(post katrina plus 5)
biggest names on team from two most recent were not from new orleans
Yeah, we wouldn't want guys like Tyrann Mathieu or Anthony the freak Johnson next year.
During the 80's and 90's we got basically no one good from New Orleans. Just some of the names we missed on: Neil Smith, LeRoy Hoard, Kordell Stewart, Marshall Faulk, Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne.
The signing of Marquis Hill was HUGE for LSU, that was the first big name, inner city NOLA kid we got in a long time. now we get almost all of them. It may not be as good as it used to be post Katrina, but LSU would never be a NC contender without get the best players from the entire state, including NOLA.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:44 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Yeah, we wouldn't want guys like Tyrann Mathieu or Anthony the freak Johnson next year.
agree... but it ain't what it used to be.....
look at the roster....
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:48 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
agree... but it ain't what it used to be.....
look at the roster....
that's not really the point. In the lean years we weren't getting anyone, basically from NOLA and losing some pretty big names. NOLA is extremely important to LSU recruting, I'm not sure what yoor point is beyond that its down from where it used to be.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 3:56 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
that's not really the point. In the lean years we weren't getting anyone, basically from NOLA and losing some pretty big names. NOLA is extremely important to LSU recruting, I'm not sure what yoor point is beyond that its down from where it used to be.
even then... N.O. was a much bigger media center players got more publicity.. dind't make them better.......
in the lean years it wasn't just N.O. that evacuated from going to LSU..
Posted on 11/22/10 at 4:01 pm to choupiquesushi
quote:
dind't make them better.......
better than what? No one is claiming NOLA players were Suupermen, just that LSU was not getting any of them, its not the hard to grap, LSU will not be an elite team if it loses out on all the top players from NOLA even if they get the top ones from the rest of the state. You must be a North Stater with some axe to grind with NOLA
quote:
in the lean years it wasn't just N.O. that evacuated from going to LSU..
for a time that is correct. DiNardo signing Faulk stopped the bleeding, but he was still missing the top guys from NOLA.
Posted on 11/22/10 at 11:10 pm to TxTiger82
quote:
Also, it is worth pointing out that Arnsparger had as many SEC titles as Mac (1).
I never said Mac was perfect....just great. Better than most LSU fans give him credit...
Posted on 11/23/10 at 12:18 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
quote:
Also, it is worth pointing out that Arnsparger had as many SEC titles as Mac (1).
Please tell me how many seasons Arnsparger competed against "the Bear". People can say what they want about Bear, but he was the best ever to coach in the SEC. Mac and everyone else could not beat him.
Mac still hung his share of big wins in his career.
Posted on 11/23/10 at 12:46 am to Vito Andolini
I was a student for every one of those years.
Archer was simply in over his head. He would probably do a good job as an HC now.
But the real reason was F'IN CURLEY. 16 years later and I can't say his last name without the first name --- even in front of my mother. Absolutely the worst head coach in college football history. We'd have done better with Suzanne Somers coaching the team.
Archer was simply in over his head. He would probably do a good job as an HC now.
But the real reason was F'IN CURLEY. 16 years later and I can't say his last name without the first name --- even in front of my mother. Absolutely the worst head coach in college football history. We'd have done better with Suzanne Somers coaching the team.
Posted on 11/23/10 at 1:17 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
and recommending that LSU hire Mike Archer instead of Spurrier, a couple of years prior to that).
taking this urban legend to a new level now. In 1986 Spurrier's only coaching expirence was a couple of years as OC at Duke and in the USFL. Texas, Alabama and USC all had openings that same year and didn't hire him, was that because of Arnsparger too? Or did BA have some better insight than everyone else?
Why do you think winning the first SEC title at LSU in 18 years is not an accomplishment?
I'm old enough to remember those years. Arnsparger hand-picked Archer for LSU, then left and took Spurrier at Fla.
Spurrier was head coach, not OC, at Duke (and went 9-3). And head coach with the Tampa Bandits in the USFL, and had one of the less talented teams in that league- and won 11 games a yr with lots of very innovative offensive calls (which we all saw more of later at Fla). BTW the USFL also had another unknown coach named Mora, who was able to finally make the Saints a winner. That league wasn't a joke, it was legit.
Hallman was the death nell for LSU. He brought in an underdog mentality, seemed like we tried to "upset" other SEC teams, instead of expecting to win. Might be fine at Southern Miss, but doesn't cut it at a big-time program. We should never treat Auburn like we need to play the greatest game of our lives to have a chance.
Dinardo actually did a good job of turning things around, otherwise we might have become somethng like Minnesota (go look up their total championships sometime, you'll be amazed).
Posted on 11/23/10 at 1:40 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
lol what?? You could argue he is one of LSU's best 3 coaches of all time. Look at what Archer did riding his coat tails before the program really took a nose dive with Hallman
Arnsparger hated to recruit. He won due in large part to Stovall's recruiting classes. He jumped ship when he saw it sinking and reccommended Archer who was only 33 at the time Bill left. Bill was not going to try to make LSU a better program for the long haul. He saw that he could ave 3 good years at LSU and he did. He was on board for 3 years and then left for FLA to become AD. Arnsparger didn't directly hurt LSU, but he damn sure didn't help.
After that, Archer won with the last of the Stovall classes. Archer had a hard time keeping the team together. He was fired (much to the dismay of Dale Brown of all people) and Hallman was hired by Dean b/c he was cheap and bc he was a disciple of Paul Bryant. The discipline then got out of control. Curley was competing with his overrated classes (and some great recruits) along with the best that Archer found from Chad Loup to Rae Adams to Odell Beckham.
It all started when Larry Horton took Pedro Saurez's opening kick of '89 to the house. It didn't do anything but get uglier from there. Those 6 seasons included:
-5/6 losses to A&M
- 3 losses to Florida State
- awful perfromances vs. Florida
- an inability to win a 6th game at opportune times
- a loss to Colorado State and a lowpoint prgram officially hits the shitter defeat to USM
- Several "Mr. Footballs from the states of GA and AL" who never panned out from Toomer to Davis to Artie Moore to James Jacquet.
- Players cheating and fighting - fighting LSU's basketball team.
- terrible offensive lines
- inability to keep guys in-state like Raynoch Thompson, Jarvis Reado, Marshall Faulk, and Peyton Manning
- a 2-9 season that saw us get goose egged by Ole Miss and Tennessee
- After Hodson, no good qb's whatsoever from Sol Graves to Loup to Jesse Daigle to Melvin Hill to Jamie Howard
- Lynn Ammadee and Mike Bugar heading offense and defense
- Injuries to 4 star talent right off the bat ala Roovelroe Swan
- Bad bad luck all the way around
Man, we need that '85 Liberty Bowl thread dug out...Arnsparger allowing his players to drive themselves to Memphis before the game with Baylor.
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