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Message

How close did Arnsparger have us to a NC??
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:00 pm
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:00 pm
would LSU have won a NC in the 80's if he had stayed?
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:03 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
If only we beat Tulane.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:07 pm to c on z
Miami of Ohio loss possibly cost us our best chance at a NC since 1959
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:07 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
LSU went 5 straight years never losing more than 1 SEC game, but the truth is that the 80's represented a renegade decade ruled by independents (Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, SMU, BYU, WVU, Penn State, Syracuse, etc.).
There was nothing LSU could do to win a NC in that era without blatant recruiting violations, and that's just not our tradition. (And you can talk all you want about LSU not being totally innocent and pure when it comes to athletics, but the truth is that we have a cleaner history than any other SEC football program besides Vanderbilt.)
Arnsparger (A) hated the recruiting side of football (which I sort of sympathize with), and (B) liked Florida and the San Diego Chargers more than he liked LSU. He did not bleed P&G, but was just a temporary mercenary hire. There's nothing wrong with that, per se. It helped make the LSU football program more professional. But it also could never have resulted in national titles.
Just my two cents.
There was nothing LSU could do to win a NC in that era without blatant recruiting violations, and that's just not our tradition. (And you can talk all you want about LSU not being totally innocent and pure when it comes to athletics, but the truth is that we have a cleaner history than any other SEC football program besides Vanderbilt.)
Arnsparger (A) hated the recruiting side of football (which I sort of sympathize with), and (B) liked Florida and the San Diego Chargers more than he liked LSU. He did not bleed P&G, but was just a temporary mercenary hire. There's nothing wrong with that, per se. It helped make the LSU football program more professional. But it also could never have resulted in national titles.
Just my two cents.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:08 pm to c on z
Probably not. The only reason we have done so well since the early 2000's is because(dare I say it) Nick Saban told LSU they needed top of the line facilities to get the top of the line recruits to come here. Lucky for us TAF listened. We've been a top recruiting university ever since.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:10 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
Arnsparger (A) hated the recruiting side of football (which I sort of sympathize with),
He would have gotten killed the last 12-14 years if that was the case.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:13 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
I will never forget that bastard was at the helm when LSU lost to Miami of Ohio. LSU was ranked 4rth or 5th in the nation at the time.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:15 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
There was nothing LSU could do to win a NC in that era without blatant recruiting violations
Probably true.
quote:
Arnsparger (A) hated the recruiting side of football
Can't win titles without it though.
quote:
He did not bleed P&G, but was just a temporary mercenary hire. There's nothing wrong with that, per se. It helped make the LSU football program more professional
Also true. Arnsparger knew what he was doing but he was a Dolphins man.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:19 pm to Flashback
quote:
Arnsparger (A) hated the recruiting side of football (which I sort of sympathize with),
His wife (BJ) signed more kids than he did...
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:22 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
Arnsperger used Stoval recruits and left LSU in worst shape in history.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:33 pm to LSUDad
Arnsparger did a good job for LSU as coach and we enjoyed some success with him, but I don't think LSU could ever have been a national championship contender in that time period.
Like Doc Fenton alluded to earlier... the 80's were the time of "other" teams. Teams like Nebraska, Oklahoma, Miami, etc... these were the power programs, and there was a huge disparity in talent between them and us. When LSU played Nebraska in the Orange Bowl and the Sugar Bowl, for instance, Nebraska actually had a SIZE advantage if you could believe that.
The playing field really started to level out with the advent of more televised games in college football. More television money motivated increased investment in facilities and brought exposure to programs like LSU that were really under-televised in the 1980's. The communications revolution has been very, very good to LSU athletics.
Like Doc Fenton alluded to earlier... the 80's were the time of "other" teams. Teams like Nebraska, Oklahoma, Miami, etc... these were the power programs, and there was a huge disparity in talent between them and us. When LSU played Nebraska in the Orange Bowl and the Sugar Bowl, for instance, Nebraska actually had a SIZE advantage if you could believe that.
The playing field really started to level out with the advent of more televised games in college football. More television money motivated increased investment in facilities and brought exposure to programs like LSU that were really under-televised in the 1980's. The communications revolution has been very, very good to LSU athletics.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:39 pm to easy1234
quote:
Arnsperger used Stoval recruits and left LSU in worst shape in history.
I think that's an exaggeration. Arnsparger signed good classes for 1984 & 1985, but maybe got a little lazy about 1986. There's not a whole lot of blame to pin on him for that.
It was the whole crazy/psycho/nutso Bob Brodhead circus that really brought the ship down. Mike Archer's classes for 1987 through 1990 really went down the tubes. (See all LSU signing classes
here.)
Just check out LSU's NFL draft history during that time ( LINK):
Spring 1988, 7 players (not including Albergamo)
Spring 1989, 6 players
Spring 1990, 8 players
-----------------------
Spring 1991, 3 players
Spring 1992, 2 players
Spring 1993, 0 players
Spring 1994, 2 players
From those numbers, it looks more like Archer's fault (and the fault of the unprofessional LSU Athletics Dept. in general), rather than the fault of Arnsparger.
Now CharlesLSU and tigger1 and some other knowledgeable guys around here will tell you a slightly different story. They will say that Archer actually had some very good recruiting classes that didn't pan out, in part because Curley Hallman was so bad at developing talent.
Either way, though, I don't think it can be said that Arnsparger left the program in worse shape than when he found it. From 1984 to 1986 LSU won the SEC twice (if you count 1984, which I do), and even after Arnsparger left, there was enough momentum for a 10-1-1 season in 1987 and yet another SEC title in 1988.
This post was edited on 4/12/11 at 10:53 pm
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:40 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
quote:
How close did Arnsparger have us to a NC??
Not even close. I remember when we played Nebraska in 1986 in the Sugar Bowl. They blew us off of both sides of the line. We lost to Miami of Ohio that year. We lost to Baylor in the Liberty Bowl in 1985. They skunked us.
Actually, Archer's team in 1987 was much better than any of Arnsparger's teams. You could say Archer won with Arnsparger's players. Maybe so. But, we tied Ohio St. (should have won that) and lost to Alabama with a beat up Hodson and Wendell Davis was out, if I remember correctly.
That '87 team was the best of the 80's, in my opinion. I think we finished 5th.
But, unless Arnsparger was going to improve the line play, we were not going to compete on the big stage.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:51 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
That '87 team was the best of the 80's, in my opinion.
I think that's likely true, although I don't know enough about the 1982, 1984, or 1986 teams to say for sure.
Still, our 10-1-1 team was light years away from being able to compete with true NC contenders, and that was one of Ohio State's worst teams of the last 50 years. A tie that seemed honorable in September proved to be disgraceful by the end of the season. Losing at home 10-22 to a 7-5 Bama team wasn't very impressive either. LSU had a few quality wins that year, but none of them against really good teams. It was nothing like quality of opponents LSU would face in the 90's and 00's.
This post was edited on 4/12/11 at 10:52 pm
Posted on 4/12/11 at 10:56 pm to Doc Fenton
Tigervision............. 
Posted on 4/12/11 at 11:01 pm to SpqrTiger
quote:
The playing field really started to level out with the advent of more televised games in college football. More television money motivated increased investment in facilities and brought exposure to programs like LSU that were really under-televised in the 1980's. The communications revolution has been very, very good to LSU athletics.
Well, I would argue that it was sort of a whiplash effect. Back before the famous U.S. Supreme Court case in 1984, traditional television kept CFB ... well ... pretty traditional. The start of ESPN in 1979 was the catalyst for a lot of the change. All of a sudden you had SMU going bananas, Clemson winning a NC in 1981, the Florida Gators going bananas, Miami winning a NC in 1983, and BYU winning a NC in 1984. On top of all that, you had programs like Oklahoma and Florida State that were becoming just off-the-hook crazy.
The adults finally started to try to regulate things and get things back to normal in the mid-80's. The NCAA lost their court case and had their televised games temporarily replaced by the CFA around 1987 or so. Finally, with television become prevalent enough to televise regular conference matchups (rather than just the big guys), conference alliances started making more sense. And so you had all the big mergers start.
SMU got the death penalty, and then the SWC started thinking about merging with the Big 8. Then the Big East formed out of a bunch of East Coast indies. Then the SEC went all superconference, and finally, even the mighty Canes and Seminoles were enticed to join conferences.
Once all the wild independents had to settle down into a more fairly organized conference-allied system, it was a foregone conclusion that the SEC would dominate. The Big XII thought they could hang ... but they were wrong!
Posted on 4/12/11 at 11:02 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
Great question and it's all speculation but here's some thoughts/comments on that period:
1) We were good in '85 but our OL was weak. Lost 20-0 vs UF, tied Bama 14-14 when Ronnie Lewis missed a potential winning FG from like 25 yds, and then lost 21-7 vs Baylor in the Liberty Bowl (very uninspired effort). BTW, one of the all-time great sets of LB's on that team (Brooks, Dubroc, Burks, and Caston?)
2) Arnsparger set the paradigm for success in this era, i.e., lock-uo LA recruiting, hire some competent assistants and watch the success. I don't know if he enjoyed recruiting or not, but we recruited well in that time.
3) The loss to Miami Of Ohio in '86 was a fluke. The other regular season loss was 21-19 to OM when Browndyke missed a short FG FTW (but he had made four FG's earlier in the game). Nebraska defeated us soundly in the Sugar Bowl (30-15). Don't recall quotes but do remember Arnsparger commenting on how we needed to become more physical.
4) We finished 5th in '87. IMO, had he stayed on we would have been very, very close to winning a NC! Again, it's all speculation.
1) We were good in '85 but our OL was weak. Lost 20-0 vs UF, tied Bama 14-14 when Ronnie Lewis missed a potential winning FG from like 25 yds, and then lost 21-7 vs Baylor in the Liberty Bowl (very uninspired effort). BTW, one of the all-time great sets of LB's on that team (Brooks, Dubroc, Burks, and Caston?)
2) Arnsparger set the paradigm for success in this era, i.e., lock-uo LA recruiting, hire some competent assistants and watch the success. I don't know if he enjoyed recruiting or not, but we recruited well in that time.
3) The loss to Miami Of Ohio in '86 was a fluke. The other regular season loss was 21-19 to OM when Browndyke missed a short FG FTW (but he had made four FG's earlier in the game). Nebraska defeated us soundly in the Sugar Bowl (30-15). Don't recall quotes but do remember Arnsparger commenting on how we needed to become more physical.
4) We finished 5th in '87. IMO, had he stayed on we would have been very, very close to winning a NC! Again, it's all speculation.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 11:04 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
SMU got the death penalty,
LSU got a couple Football transfers from SMU.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 11:11 pm to NorthshoreTiger76
no, he was a damn good coach but he was burned out and wanted to be given a cush adm. job. he was also pretty old and i think losing the fire in his belly. his bowl record was lousy too.
Posted on 4/12/11 at 11:20 pm to LSU GrandDad
Thought his years were some of the proudest times at LSU. He was a little too pro like with his loose rules, but a great teacher and coach. He knew talent and where to play it. Special Teams were really big to him. Coach A was the best. Will never understand why he left. He really thought Archer could do the job, but he was not ready. He was the most intense coach like Sabin. He was a class act.
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