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History of 3-4 vs 4-3 scheme switch? Curious.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 9:48 am
Posted on 11/2/20 at 9:48 am
Apologies in advance if there's another thread about this, and yes we're all scratching our heads right now but, I'm curious if there are any defensive scheme buffs on here that may know of teams that switched schemes between seasons and had success. Or is it always a struggle? Were we 4-3 before Aranda?
11
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:00 am to N2LSU2
If BP is such a good coordinator, why couldn’t we stick with the 3-4 until we get the proper personnel to run the 4-3.
A good coach should adjust to what you have before scrapping and starting over!
A good coach should adjust to what you have before scrapping and starting over!
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:05 am to Spec1
quote:
If BP is such a good coordinator, why couldn’t we stick with the 3-4 until we get the proper personnel to run the 4-3.
In retrospect, he should have, but he started the transition in the spring before COVID shut it down.
This post was edited on 11/2/20 at 10:05 am
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:08 am to N2LSU2
Someone that knows X’s and O’s please help me here.... obviously the spread/RPO (and rules) have fundamentally changed football to favor the offense.
Knowing that, wouldn’t it seem moving to more defensive linemen in a 4-3 system vs a 3-4 system be the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing based on how the game has changed? Seems like everyone should be converting to more LBs and more guys in coverage over more D-lineman, generally speaking?
In other words, you’re obviously going to be playing more nickel and dime defenses nowadays than 8-men in the box defensive fronts...seems like a 3-4 is much more easily adaptable to those nickel/dime coverages than a 4-3 ?
Knowing that, wouldn’t it seem moving to more defensive linemen in a 4-3 system vs a 3-4 system be the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing based on how the game has changed? Seems like everyone should be converting to more LBs and more guys in coverage over more D-lineman, generally speaking?
In other words, you’re obviously going to be playing more nickel and dime defenses nowadays than 8-men in the box defensive fronts...seems like a 3-4 is much more easily adaptable to those nickel/dime coverages than a 4-3 ?
This post was edited on 11/2/20 at 10:16 am
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:10 am to LSUAlum2001
Part of this is youth. Another part is experience. Yet another is limited practices.
Agreed the coaching staff should have made a better plan.
The change in scheme is not as big as most people make it. It it the lack of coaching at position that is an issue.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:10 am to JPLSU1981
It also doesn’t help that guys are just blowing assignments and missing easy tackles.
This post was edited on 11/2/20 at 10:11 am
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:12 am to N2LSU2
I recall Aranda having trouble implementing his 3-4 with the personnel that LSU had when he came aboard. The defense did struggle for awhile.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:12 am to JPLSU1981
quote:
Knowing that, wouldn’t it seem moving to more defensive linemen in a 4-3 system vs a 3-4 system be the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing based on how the game has changed?
Auburn shut us down with a 4-3
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:13 am to N2LSU2
It’s also not a true 4-3. They’re only playing with 2 LBs. I think the biggest issue is the inability to maintain discipline and nail coverage assignments. You need to be able to play zone, and I think we just can’t get it done right now. A lot of that has to do with the lack of experience, but we should be getting better at this point.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:13 am to Nutriaitch
quote:
Auburn shut us down with a 4-3
Steele has been there since 2016 running his 4-3.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:18 am to N2LSU2
Also, Jacoby Stevens is a damn good player, but he is not a deep coverage player. He really needs to be a Rover type player within 20 yards of the LOS.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:18 am to N2LSU2
I like an odd front better than an even but the 4-3 isn’t our issue. It’s a small factor but it isn’t the entire problem. Bo just seems lost. Bad game plans.it’s like he thinks it’s 2007 with how he’s setting these game plans up.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:24 am to N2LSU2
The change in Scheme isn't the problem!
It doesn't matter if your base D is 3-4 or 4-3, if your players don't know fundamentals! We've been running Nickle most of the year...just like last year!
the players don’t understand gap integrity, coverage responsibility. Did you watch the Dline Saturday? They were struggling to stunt. Simple motions completely screw them up!
Switching to a 4-3 isn't the problem...It's Coaching and Leadership (coaches and Players)
When you see Coaches, headsets off just watching the game as LSU gets Throttled, never jumping someone's arse..that's a problem.
When you see Players, joking and smiling as they get Throttled...it's a problem.
If you're seeing that on Saturday and absolutely no improvement in week 5...WTF is actually happening in the film room and at practice?
Where the Fk is their PRIDE? Where the Fk is the accountability? that's a question for the coaches and players!
It doesn't matter if your base D is 3-4 or 4-3, if your players don't know fundamentals! We've been running Nickle most of the year...just like last year!
the players don’t understand gap integrity, coverage responsibility. Did you watch the Dline Saturday? They were struggling to stunt. Simple motions completely screw them up!
Switching to a 4-3 isn't the problem...It's Coaching and Leadership (coaches and Players)
When you see Coaches, headsets off just watching the game as LSU gets Throttled, never jumping someone's arse..that's a problem.
When you see Players, joking and smiling as they get Throttled...it's a problem.
If you're seeing that on Saturday and absolutely no improvement in week 5...WTF is actually happening in the film room and at practice?
Where the Fk is their PRIDE? Where the Fk is the accountability? that's a question for the coaches and players!
This post was edited on 11/2/20 at 10:28 am
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:27 am to N2LSU2
quote:
Were we 4-3 before Aranda?
We were. And Aranda came in in 2016 and installed his 3-4 even though we really didn't have the exact personnel for it up front. Lewis Neal was undersized for a 3-4 DE. And the nose position was initially looking at guys who didn't fit (Lac before he got hurt, or Godchaux) or mythical players (Travonte) before settling on Gilmore and Ed Alexander, which turned out pretty well.
That 2016 group had a pretty good amount of experience coming into the year though, even if it wasn't in a 3-4.
All that said, I don't think this is as much on the scheme switch as much as guys not knowing/ executing their responsibilities. Not sure how much is on Bo not teaching it vs the players not picking it up, but this is terrible.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:33 am to N2LSU2
With all of this 3-4 vs 4-3... we are talking about number of wins this season, right?
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:36 am to WildManGoose
quote:
The defense did struggle for awhile.
We were 5th in total defense Aranda's first year. The defense was extremely good. I'm not sure where this narrative that we struggled his first year comes from.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:40 am to LSUAlum2001
quote:
Steele has been there since 2016 running his 4-3.
my point was just that the 4-3 itself vs modern offenses isn’t the issue as the OP was asking.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:43 am to JPLSU1981
quote:
Knowing that, wouldn’t it seem moving to more defensive linemen in a 4-3 system vs a 3-4 system be the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing based on how the game has changed? Seems like everyone should be converting to more LBs and more guys in coverage over more D-lineman, generally speaking?
A guy like BJ Ojulari would have been a rushing OLB in Aranda’s 3-4 system anyway. You have just as much, of not more, speed on the field in a good 4-3 defense (good being the key word here) because in Aranda’s 3-4 you basically have 3 DT’s on the field at all times, except in the speed rush package.
There are so many issues on defense that it’s pretty hard to boil it down to one schematic change.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:44 am to N2LSU2
For the love of god.
Posted on 11/2/20 at 10:48 am to whitefoot
quote:
We were 5th in total defense Aranda's first year. The defense was extremely good. I'm not sure where this narrative that we struggled his first year comes from.
Then progressively got worse each following year...
12th
30th
32nd
What's the point?
This post was edited on 11/2/20 at 10:50 am
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