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Started By
Message
re: Harris vs Wisconsin (Film of every throw)
Posted on 9/8/16 at 10:53 am to wish i was tebow
Posted on 9/8/16 at 10:53 am to wish i was tebow
quote:Like I said, it was sort of a giveaway play. I didn't count it among the 7 BAD passes.
The INT in the first half is irrelevant
1
Posted on 9/8/16 at 10:55 am to RUKidding
quote:
Les said, the receivers dropped some balls, but the truth of the matter, as I see it, is that "receivers dropped some balls" when they were trying to make diving catches on ball that were not thrown well.
In other words, Harris did not make accurate throws on all of the dropped passes.
This is true but how many balls just like those did OBJ and Landry reel in for Mett?
Posted on 9/8/16 at 10:57 am to cforester821
Harris defenders:
I appreciate your loyalty but while you're thinking about all the ways BH6 has been shafted -by the coaching, the scheme, the poor play calling, 'dropped' balls, the atrocious O-line play- think about this, too:
He's been in the system for 3 camps, two SEC seasons, and multiple bowl/kick-off games. Even if one stipulates all the rationalizations about how 'really pretty good' he was in this game (dubious propositions though they are), he still made an astonishingly stake-in-the-heart-stupid decision resulting a final turnover to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I say, if he was a gamer, he would have found a way to have Tiger fans talking about how LSU should have won the game by more than just a last stanza field goal. That was his chance (like many he has had before) to step up, put his mark on this team, and take charge. Instead, he wilted under the heat and glare of the moment and behaved in an all-to-familiar, rattled manner.
Come up with all the apologies and excuses you want but it won't change this reality. After all this time, more should be expected.
I appreciate your loyalty but while you're thinking about all the ways BH6 has been shafted -by the coaching, the scheme, the poor play calling, 'dropped' balls, the atrocious O-line play- think about this, too:
He's been in the system for 3 camps, two SEC seasons, and multiple bowl/kick-off games. Even if one stipulates all the rationalizations about how 'really pretty good' he was in this game (dubious propositions though they are), he still made an astonishingly stake-in-the-heart-stupid decision resulting a final turnover to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I say, if he was a gamer, he would have found a way to have Tiger fans talking about how LSU should have won the game by more than just a last stanza field goal. That was his chance (like many he has had before) to step up, put his mark on this team, and take charge. Instead, he wilted under the heat and glare of the moment and behaved in an all-to-familiar, rattled manner.
Come up with all the apologies and excuses you want but it won't change this reality. After all this time, more should be expected.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 10:58 am to mmcgrath
quote:
I didn't count it among the 7 BAD passes.
But you sounded this...
and this...
The other 5 you pointed out I've got no qualms about, but these two are overly critical. Broken play, pressure, rolling left and trying to make up a route on the fly. The other is a back shoulder throw that was the smart play with the safety coming over the top. He leads Dupre and likely gets his head taken off.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:00 am to Zach Lee To Amp Hill
quote:As was pointed out by SportsTiger1, he was covering the backside of the play. If anything that tells me that the lead blockers were running too far ahead of the play. If they slow down they could open up the hole for Fournette a lot easier than covering an agile defender in motion.
Boutte running away from the play was so blatantly obvious during the play. that play would've been a touchdown. I could watch that gif 1000 times and still have no idea what the frick he was thinking.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:02 am to slackster
quote:
rolling left
Harris almost always rolls to the left.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:02 am to mmcgrath
Such a shitshow. You see the physical tools, but you also see the lack of a mental makeup. Consistency, several balls that a starting QB in the SEC can't miss. I may have been able to connect on a few of them.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:03 am to slackster
You are assuming that "back shoulder" throw was intentional. Given Harris' accuracy issues, I have trouble making that assumption.
And that first throw was bad. Not even close.
And that first throw was bad. Not even close.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:06 am to slackster
quote:On the first one the receiver had at least 8 yards of cushion front and back. The pass missed him by 10 yards. That is a bad pass, pressure or no pressure. As Les would say, it wouldn't look all that bad if he made good passes on the other 5.
The other 5 you pointed out I've got no qualms about, but these two are overly critical. Broken play, pressure, rolling left and trying to make up a route on the fly. The other is a back shoulder throw that was the smart play with the safety coming over the top. He leads Dupre and likely gets his head taken off.
quote:Not sure if that is true as he would have been even with the safety on the catch. But still, the throw was to short even for a back shoulder throw. Maybe not as horrible as the others, but still a miss.
The other is a back shoulder throw that was the smart play with the safety coming over the top. He leads Dupre and likely gets his head taken off.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:10 am to Knight of Old
quote:
Come up with all the apologies and excuses you want but it won't change this reality. After all this time, more should be expected.
I can't speak for everyone on here but I'm not saying Harris is or has been "great". I think he has more talent and experience than any other QB we have and I believe he was good enough on Saturday for LSU to win. I'm only defending him from those that say he cost us the game or think that Etling is going to make things better. If the O-line plays that bad again it doesn't matter who the QB is.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:13 am to wilceaux
quote:
And that first throw was bad. Not even close
It was a bad throw, but my argument is the circumstances force a bad throw there quite often.
The rest of the bad throws - the 5 I pointed out - were all on Harris. No argument there.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:14 am to slackster
quote:
quote:
Haven't we all been saying to get the tight ends and fournette involved in the passing game? They pushed the TE out and Fournette out multiple times in the game.
We have, and you're right, we did do that more than most would have remembered. I'm not really sure what we're arguing at this point.
We're not, really. Just saying that there were multiple routes being run...the fact that they weren't "wide receivers" every time is just semantics. They did a much better job, imo, of having multiple receiver plays to give Harris plenty of options. And no...not every time in those were the "receivers" actually wide receivers. And I think that is much smarter than lining up in 4 or 5 wide sets. Having a TE and Fournette matched up against a LB gives us a decided advantage as opposed to lining up against a nickle back.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:18 am to Knight of Old
quote:
He's been in the system for 3 camps, two SEC seasons, and multiple bowl/kick-off games. Even if one stipulates all the rationalizations about how 'really pretty good' he was in this game (dubious propositions though they are), he still made an astonishingly stake-in-the-heart-stupid decision resulting a final turnover to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I say, if he was a gamer, he would have found a way to have Tiger fans talking about how LSU should have won the game by more than just a last stanza field goal. That was his chance (like many he has had before) to step up, put his mark on this team, and take charge. Instead, he wilted under the heat and glare of the moment and behaved in an all-to-familiar, rattled manner.
He shouldn't have thrown that ball, plain and simple.
If Clapp doesn't have a false start, we're not throwing on 1st and 15 outside of FG range anyway. If Clapp picks up his guy Harris has shown he can make good throws with time. If Clapp doesn't go back to get that guy and go across Harris's face as he's throwing, perhaps the throw isn't as bad. (Clapp wasn't the worst on the OL all day, but that was two painful plays)
You can blow that decision up all you want to fit your narrative that he is the problem, but you're wrong.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:22 am to mmcgrath
quote:Yes, but if he had any situational awareness or football sense, he would have seen that assignment had become obsolete and sought productive action. Instead, he pointed his nose in the opposite direction, sought and found no defenders, and was jogging away from the failed play he had just avoided and of which he was either unaware or uninterested.
he was covering the backside
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:22 am to TigerBaitTx
quote:I remember OBJ had some straight drops early in 2013, especially catching on the run. Most of the tough catches were on throws where that was the only place Mett could put the ball, not cleaning up a garbage throw.
his is true but how many balls just like those did OBJ and Landry reel in for Mett?
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:29 am to cforester821
Please rewatch the video and focus on Jeter 81! Then you will see how bad we needed Dillon Gordon to comeback one more season.
Route Running is even worse than his blocking.
Route Running is even worse than his blocking.
This post was edited on 9/8/16 at 11:31 am
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:32 am to RHSTiger98
quote:Look, a game is made up of increments ("it's a game of inches', right?) that conglomerate into a whole.
defending him from those that say he cost us the game
So, yes: the O-line SUCKED number one. And the offensive scheme and play calling was lame and predictable. Some receivers were a bit lackluster. The kicking game was laughable. Even the D -far and away the best performing unit of the day- left room for improvement.
But even after all that and more, LSU was within stricking distance for a makable FG with 4 downs and a timeout in their pocket.
BH6 used that moment to become rattled under pressure and find the one decision that was absolutely wrong to make. That at best cost the opportunity to win the game. He has to shoulder that blame as much or more than any of the team. Sad but true.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:35 am to mmcgrath
quote:
I remember OBJ had some straight drops early in 2013, especially catching on the run. Most of the tough catches were on throws where that was the only place Mett could put the ball, not cleaning up a garbage throw.
I'm not one of these guys saying Harris is good and doesn't deserve criticism, on that performance alone should be grounds for a staff change after the years we have had at the QB position. But if you refuse to accept the fact that OBJ/ Juice come down with prolly half the balls Dupre didn't your blind. Hell Landry would take the ball from defenders regularly 2013 UF comes to mind. Harris needs Dupre to be that type of player and he wasn't Saturday. That's just the facts. Doesn't make it ok for Harris to be inaccurate that's another problem altogether.
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:43 am to slackster
Overthrow...
LINK
Overthrow...
LINK
Pressure from left. Escapes to the wrong side of pocket AND his wrong side. Tough throw but completely misses...
LINK
No problem here although his drop in the pocket is pretty deep(probably doesnt trust Oline prot). Protection superb. Good pocket...
LINK
No protection...
LINK
No problem here(these are the kind of throws the coaching staff should be giving him to start the game)...
LINK
Great timing throw...
LINK
Throws into double-coverage. Dont know his arm strength but should have led the receiver...
LINK
Happy feet. Doesnt step into pocket(a common problem). Good read on the check down(needs to happen more often)...
LINK
Protection good. Bad throw...
LINK
Wow. Holding on the center! Doesnt set feet. Great throw. Great touch...
LINK
No problem here(need more plays like this)...
LINK
Ditto...
LINK
Great job hanging tough in the pocket. Saw hit coming...
LINK
Questionable placement. Possible back shoulder look. Maybe should have led receiver. Dont know if he has arm strength to rainbow a ball greater than 40 yards. Jump ball the receiver couldnt make a play on...
LINK
Overthrow...
LINK
Drops too deep in pocket. Terrible form. Doesnt set feet. Protection was good...
LINK
Refuses to step up into pocket on this and many others. Skittish in pocket...
LINK
Good job avoiding rush and keeping eyes down field...
LINK
No problem here. Single read
...
LINK
Blown protection. Free rusher. Good job avoiding. Once again, doesnt swing hips around and set feet causes bad throw(game over)...
LINK
LINK
Overthrow...
LINK
Pressure from left. Escapes to the wrong side of pocket AND his wrong side. Tough throw but completely misses...
LINK
No problem here although his drop in the pocket is pretty deep(probably doesnt trust Oline prot). Protection superb. Good pocket...
LINK
No protection...
LINK
No problem here(these are the kind of throws the coaching staff should be giving him to start the game)...
LINK
Great timing throw...
LINK
Throws into double-coverage. Dont know his arm strength but should have led the receiver...
LINK
Happy feet. Doesnt step into pocket(a common problem). Good read on the check down(needs to happen more often)...
LINK
Protection good. Bad throw...
LINK
Wow. Holding on the center! Doesnt set feet. Great throw. Great touch...
LINK
No problem here(need more plays like this)...
LINK
Ditto...
LINK
Great job hanging tough in the pocket. Saw hit coming...
LINK
Questionable placement. Possible back shoulder look. Maybe should have led receiver. Dont know if he has arm strength to rainbow a ball greater than 40 yards. Jump ball the receiver couldnt make a play on...
LINK
Overthrow...
LINK
Drops too deep in pocket. Terrible form. Doesnt set feet. Protection was good...
LINK
Refuses to step up into pocket on this and many others. Skittish in pocket...
LINK
Good job avoiding rush and keeping eyes down field...
LINK
No problem here. Single read
... LINK
Blown protection. Free rusher. Good job avoiding. Once again, doesnt swing hips around and set feet causes bad throw(game over)...
LINK
This post was edited on 9/8/16 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 9/8/16 at 11:43 am to slackster
quote:
Oh, and just for good measure, here was the TD negated by a smart hold from the Wisconsin DB...
Ughh. I remember just being ecstatic that we got a first down on that play.
That was definitely a TD though. Would've completely changed the complexion of the game.
Harris WAS NOT terrible.
As others have said it was the line play.
If you look at the OLine thread and the gif with the screen pass we had 3 blockers set up perfectly for 1 linebacker. Boutte ran backwards and took himself out of the play. Pocic and Clapp pretty much just dived onto the ground and the lone linebacker stopped Fournette after a couple yards on what should've been 15 or so. If that was an anomaly and the line looked crisp the rest of the game then there would be hope for the rest of the season. As it stands we're in for another 31 yard (if that) performance against Bama and the good DLines in the SEC. The pass protection and run protection were equally terrible. If those guys just stick to their assignments and make what are pretty routine plays we would've won that game by 3 touchdowns. moved the ball at will all day like we did on two drives.
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