re: Give MM 3 years and quit whining.

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which coaches came into their program as late as McMahon

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He was hired during the ncaa tournament, thats not a late hire.

Keep the excuses coming for mcmonotone.

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Tommy Lloyd at Arizona last season. Foolishly, he didn’t just accept his team couldn’t be good. And with a little bit of naive determination he was able to scrap his was to a 33-4 record; a Pac 12 championship and No.1 seed in the NCAA Tournament.

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He had a full squad of players returning. He didn't have to recruit a whole new roster from scratch.

Really, Arizona isn't remotely similar.

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ETA. In fairness to MM, the Arizona administration didn’t crap all over the current roster like Woody and Tate did when they fired the head coach and associate head coach the week of the NCAA tournament. Why any player on that team would come back is beyond me. That admin told you how much your season mattered to them.

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And that's the thing. Arizona seemed to handle things a lot more amicably. With LSU it was sudden and harsh. As a result McMahon inherited an empty roster and zero recruits, while Lloyd inherited a full roster.

Now I am not sure whether the majority of blame lies with Woody or Wade, but expecting McMahon to do like Lloyd did in Arizona is just completely ignorant of the facts.

I don’t think LSU fires a head coach before the penalties to the program are announced without anticipation of them being at less somewhat severe. But hey,I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out the NCAA.

A head coach is ultimately responsible for everything that goes on with in his program. So if his team is playing uninspired basketball, that’s definitely on him. Having said that, so what? He’s not going anywhere. I’m sure he didn’t come here without some assurances that he would be given a reasonable amount of time to right this ship.

He’s been successful in the past, although it be in a much smaller pond, so I have hopes that he can be successful here in recruiting and on the court play.

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I don’t think LSU fires a head coach before the penalties to the program are announced without anticipation of them being at less somewhat severe. But hey,I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out the NCAA.

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IMO, Wade was fired for two reason. (1) So LSU (the program) could make an argument to save itself by throwing Wade under the buss. LSU will (and probably has already) argue Wade is who any sanctions should be directed to...not coaches/players who did no wrong. That is a reasonable position given NC State was under IARP investigation like LSU. Ultimately, the coaches got hit with show cause penalties. The school had relatively minor sanctions. (2) Woodward didn't hire Wade, and Wade was incredibly demanding. If you are an AD who isn't tied to the HC and is tired of his demands...despite being under investigation...it is probably easy to cut bait.

The firing of Wade (as much as I didn't like it) was justifiable as a means to try to lessen the blow for LSU (though the timing was petty and vindictive). I have long believed, and still believe, Wade is going to be hit with some fairly severe sanctions and LSU won't.

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Having said that, so what? He’s not going anywhere. I’m sure he didn’t come here without some assurances that he would be given a reasonable amount of time to right this ship.

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The "so what?" is that their are no signs of him "righting the ship". The recruiting class for next season is nondescript. He is producing horrible, non-competitive results, with what should be at least a middle of the pack roster. He signed a solid freshman class coming into this season. Two of those guys have barely played...for a team that could use all the help it could get...and another has been a non-factor all season with no real signs of improvement. Given the nature of college basketball today, it is not unreasonable to think some, maybe all, will transfer out after the season.

The transfer rules have completely changed college basketball. No one really builds programs the way it was done before the rule changes. You build individual teams from year to year. Even most of the the really good teams this season are going to have to significantly overhaul their roster for next season. 5, 6, 7+ new players. This isn't going to be a Murray St situation where you bring in an unheralded KJ Williams and develop him (and others) to a all conf. player in 3-4 years. So McMahon is likely going to have to significantly rebuild the roster for next year (like he did this year)...then do it again....and again.

Given this is mostly HIS roster, with HIS recruits, that is getting beaten by 10+ every night, and HIS recruiting class for next season isn't all that remarkable (on paper), it is difficult to have a lot of confidence he's going to be able to suddenly turn things around.

Best case scenario. This season was a HUGE culture shock for him with a steep learning curve at this level. Now that he has experience, he knows what he needs to do and who he needs to get to compete at this level. With that knowledge, he develops a plan of attack and takes off starting next season.

Worst case scenario. He is a guy that has never played or coached at a major conference level, and he's just not cut out for the level of competition and recruiting wars. So we get maybe a slight improvement next season, but no real hope of his program ever becoming a championship contender.

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This year was going to always be trash.

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it didn't have to be. I think that the wrong coach was hired.

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Did they have to try to recruit ballplayers in with the possibility of severe NCAA sanctions hanging over their head?

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yes. and woodward hired the wrong coach.

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His top 4 scorers and top 3 rebounders were already on the team when he got the job. NO comparison. It is silly to even try.

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When you have to bring in 6-7 new players (of 13 available scholarships) that is not a full roster. Still, I acknowledged the situation was not as bad as at LSU. However, you seem to continue to be under the delusion that people are criticizing McMahon because he is not winning the SEC or en route to a number 1 seed like Lloyd. They aren't! The criticism is he's getting skullfricked EVERY.SINGLE.GAME.

"Success" is relative. Often times based upon expectations. Even with a "full" roster Arizona was picked to finish 4th in Pac 12. Lloyd greatly exceeded those expectations AND signed a top 10 class...despite no ruling from the IARP and his program being under the "threat of sanctions". So you say "how could any one succeed "facing sanctions". Lloyd and Arizona is an example of a coach/program doing just that! And the bar for "success" when he took over was WAY higher than it was for McMahon this season.

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Which of those teams had an empty roster

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Iowa St returned 2 players last season. Kansas St returned 2 players from last season. Missouri returned 3 from last season. Those numbers are all comparable to what LSU retuned this season.

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AND were facing sanctions?

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You act as if McMahon came into this season with 6 players. Regardless of what the roster looked like in April he entered the season with a full roster. He signed a top 20 recruiting class. His transfers weren't remarkably worse than what teams like Missouri and K-State brought in. It was a roster anyone and everyone who follows college basketball thought was good enough to compete in the middle of a strong SEC. Mizzou and K-State's transfers were mostly mid-major and JUCO guys with a few power-conf. guys mixed in.

Yet, Jerome Tang and Dennis Gates are having success relative to very low expectations (K-State was picked to finish last in the Big 12), while McMahon is getting drilled...and failing to come close to meeting even LSU's relatively low expectations.

Your argument might be valid if the best McMahon could get coming into this season was a tuba player in the band who had not played basketball since high school, a few unranked HS signees, middling JUCO transfers, and still not enough to fill 13 scholarships. But that is NOT what this roster is. So despite "facing sanctions" McMahon actually did a good job of compiling what should be a competitive roster. He's just done a horrible job of actually coaching that roster.

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The man came into a terrible situation.

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yes no one expected anything from this shitty roster

Oh

wait

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The longer it takes for them to announce the sanctions the more difficult it’s going to be to recruit. That just seems like common sense to me, but who knows. I don’t see how anyone can objectively judge his recruiting when he is having to convince the guys to come here without first knowing what they’re going to be facing down the road.

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Other schools in the EXACT same situation were able to recruit just fine. Why should LSU be the exception?

LSU's was one of six cases referred to the IARP (adjunct of the NCAA investigate process). The others were Kansas, Memphis, Louisville, NC State, Arizona.

For Memphis, the investigation was referred to the IARP on 3/4/20. The case was not decided until 9/27/22 So even with the "threat of potential sanctions looming" Memphis and Penny Hardaway signed the #1 class in the country going into the 2021 season

Louisville's case was referred to the IARP on 2/19/21. No decision was reached until 11/3/22. Before that ruling was issued Louisville was still able to sign 4 top 100 players and a 4 star transfer (unfortunately for them, their new HC can't coach a lick)

Kansas had their case referred on 7/1/20. No decision has been reached yet. Nevertheless, Kansas has continued to recruit top ten classes despite the "threat of sanctions"

LSU's case was referred to the IARP on 12/23/20. There has still been no decision. Yet, Wade recruited just fine under the "looming threat of sanctions". Hell, even McMahon was able to sign two top 100 players going into this season.

The point is the players don't remotely give as much of a shite about "looming sanctions" as the fans on here. So continuing to use that as an excuse is just inaccurate. If the players like the coach; (now) get NIL deals, and see themselves with an opportunity to play right away, they will sign...without any concern over "sanctions" for activity that predated them. The great players are looking to get out of college ASAP to the professional ranks. THAT is their No. 1 goal. A distant second is winning big in college.