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re: Fundamentals are crucial
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:00 pm to CharlesLSU
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:00 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
it is appropriate to contrast him with his new primary competitor in the chase for the West.
But you did not frame your initial post in terms of the 'chase for the West', it was about the importance of fundamentals in coaching. In that context, which is coaching in general, mention of a former coach at LSU is at best only slightly relevant.
You could have just as suitably compared Miles to Paterno, or Bill Arnsberger, or any number of past or present coaches.
1
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:00 pm to MightyYat
quote:
It took Gonzo all of ONE practice to see that our WRs were lining their feet up incorrectly at the line of scrimmage. He made one fundamental adjustment and supposedly has our guys getting off the ball quicker.
Yat, being this far away I miss some of the LSU news. If this is true, your news is great Christmas gift to me!! Thanks!
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:00 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
i noted the difference, you took it to the next level. that said i do prefer the saban approach, although both get results. mile's way is just unsustainable.
Meh, Lou Holtz glory days had quite a bit of a Miles' "win one for the gipper" approach. However, that guy had some of the best in your face arse chewings on the sidelines ever seen.
Although Lou is a homer, it would be interesting to see how his style compares between these two. My opinion is he is more of a Miles' style of coach (if comparing the two set out by Tiger n atl) then a Saban, and he was quite successful. Add Bobby Bowden to that mix too.
So to blatently say it is unsubstainable is unfounded.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:02 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
didn't get blown out
always a good goal to shoot for
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:03 pm to oiltiger
quote:
FUNDAMENTALS ARE CRUCIAL
agree...the best coach I ever had would say "you may beat us because you're better than us, but not because we weren't prepared". The key thing though, this became a culture that he instilled in the seniors, and they set the tone through leadership year after year. The coach himself, was demanding, but he wasn't an a-hole about it.
my argument on Saban was based more on his dog-cussing style of motivation, more than his focus on details...I should've made that more clear.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:04 pm to oiltiger
quote:
FUNDAMENTALS ARE CRUCIAL
it really sucks to watch other top ten teams play sometimes
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:05 pm to TheDoc
quote:
always a good goal to shoot for
it's called a data point Tomm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:05 pm to LJBurton
quote:
Yes, it is. What other conclusion can be drawn from the consistently sloppy execution demonstrated on the field every Saturday?
I remember earlier in the season Derek Helton telling one of the beat reporters that they hadn't practiced what to do in the case of a bad snap headed for the end zone. This is but one example of the little things that Miles doesn't focus on. There is no attention to detail and no attention to execution.
i think you need to look up what the word factual means. I know for a fact that he puts an emphasize on execution, just like EVERY coach in the country
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:06 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
it's called a data point Tomm
Data point Tomm?
what?
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:07 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
To PH & Hous, my blood runs far more PnG than yours
Charles, my comment was in support and agreement with yours...
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:20 pm to Housplants
Just because I think it puts things in perspective, i'd like to hear what you think about Pete Carroll. Is he a Saban or Miles-type coach. And what do you think USC is blaming their epic fail on this season?
I ask because I think USC's season this year is very comparable to our 08 season (young qb's, blowout losses, team underperforming despite "playmakers" on offense). And it indicates that no matter how good your roster and or coaching staff is, sometimes things just don't go right for you.
I ask because I think USC's season this year is very comparable to our 08 season (young qb's, blowout losses, team underperforming despite "playmakers" on offense). And it indicates that no matter how good your roster and or coaching staff is, sometimes things just don't go right for you.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 1:22 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
Crisp execution first....popularity second. Just a guess
fundamental to sustained leadership success...seasonal anecdotal success masks the importance of the truth...Les seems not to agree with us, and that is one of my primary issues with him.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 2:05 pm to LSUnKaty
quote:
But you did not frame your initial post in terms of the 'chase for the West', it was about the importance of fundamentals in coaching. In that context, which is coaching in general, mention of a former coach at LSU is at best only slightly relevant.
You could have just as suitably compared Miles to Paterno, or Bill Arnsberger, or any number of past or present coaches.
IMHO Saban stands, in my eyes, as the standard on which to measure grasp of fundamentals. To this point it is absolutely appropriate to use him in comparison. The fact that he is in the West only spices up the contention.
Saban>>>>Paterno>>>>>>Arnsparger......at this day and time.
My thread points are valid.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 2:06 pm to Housplants
quote:
Charles, my comment was in support and agreement with yours...
duly noted.....I take it back. And, honestly, we all love LSU
Posted on 12/23/09 at 3:09 pm to CharlesLSU
So in a Saban practice session, the players are learning fundamentals during practice, and during a Miles practice session, the players are learning . . . well, what exactly?
Posted on 12/23/09 at 3:30 pm to just me
That's the point.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 8:31 pm to just me
quote:
So in a Saban practice session, the players are learning fundamentals during practice, and during a Miles practice session, the players are learning . . . well, what exactly?
All this "Miles doesn't coach fundamentals, execution, or detail" is just stupid. Kids and coaches make mistakes. Some of you act like he's never won a game here yet he's won nearly 80% (and more than your Lord Saban).
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:08 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
IMHO Saban stands, in my eyes, as the standard on which to measure grasp of fundamentals. To this point it is absolutely appropriate to use him in comparison. The fact that he is in the West only spices up the contention.
Saban>>>>Paterno>>>>>>Arnsparger......at this day and time.
My thread points are valid.
You are actually begging the question and passing it off as logic.
In your opinion Saban is the best -> you assume that nobody else is as good and then you show this as proof that Saban is the best and when asked why not choose someone else - you again offer your opinion and say that the thread points are valid?
ETA: as you might well know - Saban is a sore point to so many in the rant and if you are interested in genuine discussion - please realize that a lot of others don't have this dis-interested impartial way of viewing certain information and hence it is practical to use other logical examples and proceed to have a good discussion.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 12/24/09 at 12:40 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
CharlesLSU
I believe the key to Saban's success at Bama has been his attention to detail, specifically teaching fundamentals. He has intensely drilled in their minds the correct way to execute and this is what I have witnessed watching Bama this year.......a thing of coach's beauty.
I get the distinct feeling this is where Les et al (sans Chavis) have dropped the ball. Without crisp execution of the fundamentals, play is sloppy and disorganized.
The game plans on offense have been suspect, but sloppy execution greatly exacerbates this.
The lack of fundamental training is not just on McCarthy but all of them....it is Les' job to push his position guys. Oline execution is directly related to fundamentals. Even with superior talent, if an olineman does not execute properly he is beat. I have witnessed issues all season with them picking up blitzes/stunts correctly.......not necessarily recognizing them, but physically adjusting to them to stop the penetration and THIS is due to lack of fundamental training. I truly believe Stud is a good coach but they have all lacked in the fundamental realm.
Also, what makes practices extra tough is the basic drills and performing them over and over to get proper form/execution.......when you are placating/befriending young men, this may get pushed to the wayside. Crisp execution first....popularity second. Just a guess.
Might be one of the best post Ive read in a long time...I totally agree, so you could agree that Miles is overpaid, no? I've played for two coaches with similar attitudes such as Miles's and saban's. I think miles is a outstanding citizen and a great man, but coaches that lack attention to detail usually let other things (I dont want to use the terms fall apart, but I cant think of anything better right now.)I think its something that fans and the administrators should keep an eye on...but great post...
This post was edited on 12/24/09 at 12:48 am
Posted on 12/24/09 at 12:52 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Agree. Les coaches on "emotion" and "want". His coaching style revolves less around fundamentals and more about how much you love the game. Certainly there is room for love of the game, but Saban is fundamentally sound and X's and O's sharp. Miles is emotionally connected to his team and gets players to care about the program, but is not fundamentally sound nor attentive to detail.
Both coaches could improve by incorporating a little of both into their philosophies, although Saban, by virtue of being process oriented and not so emotionally invested, gets better results over the long haul because emotions tend to wane over time, where fundamentals are a constant and apply for every game and every situation..
Miles gets short term results by 'caring more' and getting the players to be emotional and "up" for a big game ("let's play for our school"), but then suffers big letdowns over seasons and particularly games where the team loses or looks bad because the little things were not very fundamentally sound.
Saban = all about business- winning, and beating the man in front of you, detail and process oriented. Learn from your mistakes and get better.
Miles = all about emotions- love your school, the game, and your teammates, play for them and don't worry about the little things, ignore criticism just go out there and play, don't worry about your mistakes.
I would agree as well, you better have some of the best talent in the world to keep up with a guy that can outcoach you though...players are what miles is gonna win with...
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