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re: Fundamentals are crucial
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:16 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:16 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
mile's way is just unsustainable.
What you described as the option is certainly unsustainable.
It is your opinion, and not a proven fact, that it is the one favored by Miles- one of the points that I was trying to make was that you don't know the whole story - in fact the only part you know is what you get via the media (tv,news, radio).
ETA: I am not trying to make a Miles Vs Saban whose is larger comparison here.
By taking Bama to the Title this year Saban has more than proven his worth and that doesn't require acknowledgment.
I am merely saying that we all assume certain behavioral traits from Miles and most of it is from our own making and re-iterating and regurgitating message board content.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:18 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
mile's way is just unsustainable.
Again...not true. I could name a few coaches that do not publicly (or even on the sidelines) rip their coaches or players that have had pretty good careers.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:19 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
that Miles does not emphasize execution in his approach to coaching his teams.
quote:
This is factual commentary.
no, its not
Yes, it is. What other conclusion can be drawn from the consistently sloppy execution demonstrated on the field every Saturday?
I remember earlier in the season Derek Helton telling one of the beat reporters that they hadn't practiced what to do in the case of a bad snap headed for the end zone. This is but one example of the little things that Miles doesn't focus on. There is no attention to detail and no attention to execution.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:19 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
no, its not
If he does truly emphasize execution then, based on the execution of his teams (stupid penalties, missed assignments, clock mgt, overall state of confusion, et al), he is a worse coach than any Miles hater has ever thought.
Miles has his positives. I doubt many would say they include instilling discipline & execution in his teams.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:21 pm to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
that said i do prefer the saban approach, although both get results. mile's way is just unsustainable.
not really, most organizations will grow tired of guys like Saban's approach as soon as they're successful. Kind of like a turnaround artist coming into a struggling company, once the turnaround is complete you need to get rid of him and hire a sustainer.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:26 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
If he does truly emphasize execution then, based on the execution of his teams (stupid penalties, missed assignments, clock mgt, overall state of confusion, et al), he is a worse coach than any Miles hater has ever thought.
he over-emphasizes execution and repetition vs. paying attention to the details that can cause a play to go wrong. If a play doesn't work, he believes it should be worked on again and again. But that really underscores the problem, he doesn't seem to know when to say "that play is never going to work", or "until we can get it right every time, we're not running it".
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:27 pm to ForeLSU
quote:
not really, most organizations will grow tired of guys like Saban's approach as soon as they're successful. Kind of like a turnaround artist coming into a struggling company, once the turnaround is complete you need to get rid of him and hire a sustainer.
1) I think (IMO) that this is BS. If Saban sticks around & continues winning, why on Earth would the organization grow tired of him? But I don't really care about Saban anyway.
2) Let's hope that Miles doesn't "sustain" this .500 SEC mark (since NC) too long.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:31 pm to LJBurton
Im going to go out on a limb here and say that Miles knows more about coaching than anyone in this thread. I mean, he's won 78% of his games (2 years with rookie QB's) so he must be doing something right....right?
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:36 pm to CharlesLSU
quote:
First, I like Les and want to see things improve.
Now, considering the scary "right foot" comments from Gonzo, I offer these thoughts:
I believe the key to any coach's success is his attention to detail, specifically teaching fundamentals.
I get the distinct feeling this is where Les et al (sans Chavis) have dropped the ball. Without crisp execution of the fundamentals, play is sloppy and disorganized.
The game plans on offense have been suspect, but sloppy execution greatly exacerbates this.
The lack of fundamental training is not just on McCarthy but all of them....it is Les' job to push his position guys. Oline execution is directly related to fundamentals. Even with superior talent, if an olineman does not execute properly he is beat. I have witnessed issues all season with them picking up blitzes/stunts correctly.......not necessarily recognizing them, but physically adjusting to them to stop the penetration and THIS is due to lack of fundamental training. I truly believe Stud is a good coach but they have all lacked in the fundamental realm.
Also, what makes practices extra tough is the basic drills and performing them over and over to get proper form/execution.......when you are placating/befriending young men, this may get pushed to the wayside. Crisp execution first....popularity second. Just a guess.
There, fixed it. Now it's a post I can read without wanting to vomit.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:41 pm to ForeLSU
quote:How do you know this?
he over-emphasizes execution and repetition
The point is the execution is shitty...whether the play is doomed from the clipboard or the coaches aren't good at practice is inconsequential.
quote:Correct w/out doubt, but we also have way too many times where there are stupid mistakes that have nothing to do with the play called (pre-snap penalties, guys not knowing where to line up, missed assignments, clock mgt). Those are practicing issues...execution issues...discipline issues (for the players & coaches).
he doesn't seem to know when to say "that play is never going to work", or "until we can get it right every time, we're not running it".
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:41 pm to nycajun
quote:
Pointing out that Saban excels at this and that the LSU staff of the last couple of years appear not to have been so effective is spot on.
Actually, Pointing out that Saban excels at this is tangential to his argument at best.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:44 pm to Choctaw
quote:
Im going to go out on a limb here and say that Miles knows more about coaching than anyone in this thread. I mean, he's won 78% of his games (2 years with rookie QB's) so he must be doing something right....right?
Here we go.
This is almost akin to "pulling the race card."
"When I have nothing left to intelligently offer to the conversation, I'll just say this."
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:44 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
1) I think (IMO) that this is BS. If Saban sticks around & continues winning, why on Earth would the organization grow tired of him?
a variety of reasons...people don't mind being driven when the prize is still in front of them, once they have the prize attitudes change. they also get complacent and fall into the belief that it's their own talents that led to the success, not the work ethic that the leader instilled.
quote:
Let's hope that Miles doesn't "sustain" this .500 SEC mark (since NC) too long.
- upgraded the defensive staff
- improved SEC record
- didn't get blown out
- upgraded at least one position coach and improved the recruiting staff
Personally I would like to see Crowton replaced this year, and I seriously hope that Miles recognizes that game management must improve to get the team back to Atlanta
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:47 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
Here we go.
This is almost akin to "pulling the race card."
"When I have nothing left to intelligently offer to the conversation, I'll just say this."
My opinions are not going to change your mind so i went facts. I guess facts arent welcome in this thread.
Here's how i see it...
My post---
quote:
I mean, he's won 78% of his games (2 years with rookie QB's) so he must be doing something right....right?
Your post---
No comment
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:50 pm to ForeLSU
Given that none of us can change the staff, if the problem is Crowton, then, it could be just the need for an experienced QB for his system and we would have that this upcoming year.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:50 pm to Billy Ray Valentine
quote:
How do you know this?
I can tell by listening to him answer questions. If Play A fails because Hebert missed his block, then they'll work on Hebert not missing his block. Then they run it again and Shepard didn't know where to line up, costing the team a time out. So they practice again...and on and on. He believes that with enough repetition, everyone will perform and the play will work...never realizing that the fact that the call is coming in with 2 seconds left on the play clock is the root of the problems.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking up for the man at all, just trying to counter this argument that he doesn't really care how well the team executes or performs.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:51 pm to ForeLSU
quote:He's got a lot of work to do in addition to that also. He ain't going anywhere. I've come to grips with that. I just hope he'll make changes. Again, my optimism is limited.
I seriously hope that Miles recognizes that game management must improve to get the team back to Atlanta
Doesn't mean I won't cheer as loud as ever.
But Miles is definitely under a microscope (as should be). Anyone who thinks that's wrong/unfair is just naive.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:54 pm to ForeLSU
Walter Alston started each spring with such simple fundamentals as the pitcher throwing the ball underhanded to the first baseman over and over even with such superstar pitchers as he had. No matter who you were, they drilled, drilled, drilled on the basic fundamentals.
John Wooden taught his players on the first day of practice how to put their socks on and how to tie their shoelaces correctly. Once when he was asked why he did it with a team that had superstars year after year, he said a game may come down to the last seconds and if someone laces become untied, we might lose. If someones socks are not on correctly, they may get a blister and have to sit out some crucial minutes.
Both of these coaches were winners who understood that taking care of the fundamentals gives you an edge in close contests.
FUNDAMENTALS ARE CRUCIAL
John Wooden taught his players on the first day of practice how to put their socks on and how to tie their shoelaces correctly. Once when he was asked why he did it with a team that had superstars year after year, he said a game may come down to the last seconds and if someone laces become untied, we might lose. If someones socks are not on correctly, they may get a blister and have to sit out some crucial minutes.
Both of these coaches were winners who understood that taking care of the fundamentals gives you an edge in close contests.
FUNDAMENTALS ARE CRUCIAL
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:55 pm to ForeLSU
quote:I don't think anyone doubts that he cares. I just don't think he knows how to correct it or refuses to simply scrap it....which is pretty much what you're saying.
just trying to counter this argument that he doesn't really care how well the team executes or performs
Posted on 12/23/09 at 12:58 pm to CalTiger
quote:
Given that none of us can change the staff, if the problem is Crowton, then, it could be just the need for an experienced QB for his system and we would have that this upcoming year.
Maybe so, but go check out his track record at his previous stops & tell me if it inspires confidence.
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