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re: Freeman "vs." BK Isn't the Correct Conversation
Posted on 1/15/25 at 8:55 pm to Eighteen
Posted on 1/15/25 at 8:55 pm to Eighteen
quote:
In all of that wall of text, did you mention the fact that Freeman is only at Notre Dame because of Kelly? Seems like his fingerprints are still all over the program
Fair point about Freeman only being there because of Kelly. But according to players who played under both, definitely not BK's fingerprints anymore. One said BK's speeches were like, "This is a business trip. Let's go out and play sound, fundamental Notre Dame football." Freeman is, "We need to play with violence. We need to run the ball down their throats." Now, which of these would inspire you more to run through a brick wall?
1
Posted on 1/15/25 at 8:57 pm to MarkGolf
So you're saying LSU should have hired freeman instead of BK? I really dont care about Notre dame or Freeman or if you get blown out by OSU or not. GTFO of LSU message boards brah
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:09 pm to ZenFNmaster
quote:
Here's a little cheat sheet for you guys. Freeman hasn't done anything with ND that Kelly didn't already do multiple times.
When did Kelly win a final four playoff game? Oh right, he got blown out three times. When did Kelly beat even one top 10 team, much less three in a row, in the postseason?
Get real.
Oh, and in researching your allegation Notre Dame "lowered" its academic requirements, according to Sports Illustrated this is 100% false. BK kept saying Notre Dame had to "shop down a different aisle." Freeman said bullcrap to that and is convincing top recruits to embrace the difficulty of being a student athlete at Notre Dame.
I already said I liked BK and think he can win multiple championships at LSU. Because your academic standards are lower so he can get the 5-stars he thought he couldn't get at Notre Dame.
But you know what's funny? I see the exact same negative comments here over and over about him the Notre Dame fanbase made about him. Yet when a Notre Dame fan comes in here and points these things out, all of a sudden I'm the bad guy. But that's normal. We all hoped BK could take ND to the next level but he couldn't. Because he's a good coach and not a great one. He needs your 5-star athletes to overcome his inability to get more out of his teams than the sum of its parts.
Oh, and your reasons BK left are bogus. He left because you threw $100 million at him, nothing more. He was in the process of rebuilding his home in Michigan when LSU unexpectedly came calling. Does that look like someone looking to leave? Had you not, he'd likely still be at ND because AD Jack Swarbrick loved the guy.
This post was edited on 1/15/25 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:11 pm to MarkGolf
Stop reading after your retarded Georgia comment.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:13 pm to MarkGolf
quote:
He needs your 5-star athletes to overcome his inability to get more out of his teams than the sum of its parts
Uh, yes. He and everybody else do
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:20 pm to Srobi14
quote:
GTFO of LSU message boards brah
Don't believe in the 1st Amendment? Okay. And by the way, the ND board I frequent sometimes have rival fans weigh in and we welcome them.
So much for Southern hospitality...even though I live here in the South
This post was edited on 1/15/25 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:20 pm to MarkGolf
Saban used Kelly’s approach and O use Freeman’s. Saban was all business and it seemed to work for him. O was all emotion. Freeman is all emotion. Emotion works for 1 season - business is a mindset every season.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:22 pm to Cleary Rebels
quote:
Freeman is all emotion. Emotion works for 1 season - business is a mindset every season.
Fair point, although people who know Freeman would hardly say he's "all" emotion. And in seeing how Saban operated, he got pretty fired up on the sideline and awful lot.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:23 pm to dmatt2021
quote:How can you possibly know that
Freeman couldn’t have took Notre Dame from when Brian Kelly inherited that program and brought it to what it is today like Kelly did.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:32 pm to MarkGolf
That was is response to another post. Everyone has some emotion. Business approach stops the yo-yo that emotional teams seem to take on. Saban preached consistently playing to a standard or same level. Not to high, not to low. Saban is not you need to run through brick wall type coach. They are not as fun to play for and it becomes a grind. LSU has been an emotional team bc of states make-up. Saban’s somewhat changed that but players hated or some of them did.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 10:07 pm to MarkGolf
quote:
Oh, and in researching your allegation Notre Dame "lowered" its academic requirements, according to Sports Illustrated this is 100% false. BK kept saying Notre Dame had to "shop down a different aisle." Freeman said bullcrap to that and is convincing top recruits to embrace the difficulty of being a student athlete at Notre Dame.
ND doesn't game changing talent at WR nor CB. Outside of Love, there isn't any much elite, game changing talent on either side of the ball. Both lines are solid up front but nothing spectacular. They play well together though & don't make many mental mistakes.
quote:
When did Kelly win a final four playoff game? Oh right, he got blown out three times. When did Kelly beat even one top 10 team, much less three in a row, in the postseason?
You can come here & beat your chest all you want to but ND got really lucky with their draw to play 3 offensively challenged squads in Indiana, UGA & Penn St yet it still took a late INT & last second FG to beat that piss poor offense that Penn St has.
The whole country knew Indiana didn't belong. UGA had deficiencies all season long which first showed up in their close game against Kentucky & kept showing up all season long. An inconsistent offensive line, the inability to stop QB power & QB off tackle & issues with WRs struggling to get separation & drops. Penn St didn't even complete a pass to a WR. Allar is arse & set up ND at the end with his pick.
quote:
Because he's a good coach and not a great one. He needs your 5-star athletes to overcome his inability to get more out of his teams than the sum of its parts.
You just described Les Miles & Coach O & Kelly is a better coach than the both of them.
This post was edited on 1/15/25 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 1/15/25 at 10:21 pm to MarkGolf
quote:
Fair?
More than fair. 10/10 best post I’ve seen on here in awhile
Posted on 1/15/25 at 10:22 pm to MarkGolf
quote:
When did Kelly win a final four playoff game? Oh right, he got blown out three times.
I feel like this is bit of a disingenuous talking point that people are throwing around, the CFP teams Kelly faced were a combined 28-0 and some all time great teams.
There is no one in the field even close to being as good as those teams.
Penn State had two losses just on their own and isn't dramatically better or worse than Notre Dame. Notre Dame actually has more talent than Penn State per the 247 Team Talent Composite.
This is like saying Ed Orgeron is better than Brian Kelly because he won a a title and Kelly hasn't.
quote:
Oh, and your reasons BK left are bogus. He left because you threw $100 million at him, nothing more.
Per your AD, Kelly didn't allow Notre Dame to even attempt to match the offer.
That seems odd, if what you're saying is true.
This post was edited on 1/15/25 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 1/15/25 at 10:48 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
You can come here & beat your chest all you want to but ND got really lucky with their draw to play 3 offensively challenged squads in Indiana, UGA & Penn St yet it still took a late INT & last second FG to beat that piss poor offense that Penn St has.
The whole country knew Indiana didn't belong. UGA had deficiencies all season long which first showed up in their close game against Kentucky & kept showing up all season long. An inconsistent offensive line, the inability to stop QB power & QB off tackle & issues with WRs struggling to get separation & drops. Penn St didn't even complete a pass to a WR. Allar is arse & set up ND at the end with his pick.
A lot of y'all want to caveat Notre Dame's success this year. I can't recall any other team's success any other year being pooh-poohed. Indiana had a great scoring offense and was 11-1 playing a Big 10 schedule. And little-known is Indiana and Ohio State had four common opponents and IU did better than OSU against three of them. Sure, they got beat by OSU but mainly because of their own mistakes. Both Penn State and Georgia had great defenses, but you seem to ignore the fact that Notre Dame's defense is elite and has NFL-caliber cornerbacks and safeties...which MIGHT, just MIGHT, have had something to do with PSU's inability to complete a pass to a WR.
The only question mark for Monday night is can Notre Dame score enough points? They will give Ohio State's offense a hard time but OSU will still likely score 24 or so. I have my doubts that Notre Dame can score 25 but that's why they play the game. And if Ohio State wins, I will say congratulations and you were the better team.
This post was edited on 1/15/25 at 10:50 pm
Posted on 1/15/25 at 10:54 pm to MarkGolf
quote:
Indiana had a great scoring offense and was 11-1 playing a Big 10 schedule.
Indiana has one win over a team with a winning record this entire season.
quote:
but you seem to ignore the fact that Notre Dame's defense is elite and has NFL-caliber cornerbacks and safeties...which MIGHT, just MIGHT, have had something to do with PSU's inability to complete a pass to a WR.
Is Notre Dame's secondary really that elite?
Penn State doesn't have good receivers and is 59th in the country in passing yards per game, they just aren't very good at throwing the ball.
Who is the best quarterback Notre Dame has faced this season?
Posted on 1/15/25 at 11:12 pm to MarkGolf
quote:
A lot of y'all want to caveat Notre Dame's success this year.
What elite national champion over the past 30 years has a lost like NIU on their record? ND poohed poohed themselves with that terrible loss.
quote:
Indiana had a great scoring offense and was 11-1 playing a Big 10 schedule.
Indiana's strength of schedule was garbage. Outside of Ohio St, they played the underbelly of the Big 10. They beat a Michigan team that was a shell of itself in 2023 & got their shite pushed in by Ohio St.
quote:
Both Penn State and Georgia had great defenses
UGA defense was inconsistent. You think people are just supposed to forget their performances against Alabama, Ole Miss, Miss St, UMass & Georgia Tech? UGA struggled all season long with QB power & QB off tackle. At times their defense had no answer for it whatsoever.
quote:
Notre Dame's defense is elite
Your defense is really good but nowhere close to being elite. You are truly delusional if you believe that.
quote:
NFL-caliber cornerbacks and safeties
You are an SEC board talking about NFL talent when we see 1st & 2nd rounders at those positions across the league on a yearly basis. Monday you will see elite NFL caliber talent against Ohio St. Blee dat.
quote:
MIGHT, have had something to do with PSU's inability to complete a pass to a WR.
Get out of here man. Penn St WRs & Allar are arse. They didn't performance well against SMU or Boise either. Sorry but your reasoning is invalid.
quote:
The only question mark for Monday night is can Notre Dame score enough points? They will give Ohio State's offense a hard time but OSU will still likely score 24 or so.
You don't have enough athletes to score consistently on OSU nor do you have the athletes to stop their offense. Chip Kelly will eat your defense alive. Prepare thy anus.
This post was edited on 1/15/25 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 1/15/25 at 11:21 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
Get out of here man. Penn St WRs & Allar are arse. They didn't performance well against SMU or Boise either.
Penn State Passing Yards
Vs Notre Dame - 135
Vs Boise St - 171
Vs SMU - 136
I don't think Notre Dame is as elite against the pass as it seems, however they're going to avoid any elite quarterbacks.
Will Howard and Ohio State will obviously be their biggest test but even that team isn't elite in the passing game.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 11:41 pm to MarkGolf
quote:
"It was largely BK's recruits." - In looking at the two-deep, 16 of the 44 players (and that's being generous since MF was the coach three years ago) were players BK had a hand in recruiting.
That 2022 recruiting class was already wrapped up when Kelly left, so you aren’t being “generous” giving him credit for 3rd year players. I don’t know who on the roster might have transferred in (other than Leonard), but the entire starting OL and TE has been there 3+ years. Given rushing was the overwhelming strength of the offense and Denbrock is a Kelly protege, the success of the offense is very much due to Kelly. 8 of 11 starters on defense are in year 3+ (again I don’t know if any transferred in). That sounds like a lot of Kelly recruits making up the core of the defense, which was their strength.
quote:
Stockton played well, 20/32 for 232 and 1 TD
For a team that wasn’t great running the ball, 232 yards passing wasn’t what they needed from their QB. Georgia averaged almost 300 yards a game passing before Beck went down. 62.5% completion is okay, but not great in today’s game, especially when they weren’t going deep. And while ND’s defense deserves credit for pressuring Stockton, he didn’t handle it very well. Beck might not have made a difference, but QB play definitely wasn’t at the level Georgia needed in that game.
quote:
"ND could never beat 2012 Alabama or 2019 LSU" - And you know what? You're 100% right. But they're not playing against history; they're playing against now.
That’s great and all, but if you are trying to compare Freeman’s accomplishments to Kelly’s, you have to consider the context of who they played. Kelly lost in the playoffs to Alabama and Clemson teams who would have demolished this year’s ND too. That also answers your question about what Freeman and Kelly accomplished in the postseason.
quote:
"Freeman sucks because he lost to Northern Illinios" - and look who ND lost to under BK when they had far superior talent: UConn, Duke, Syracuse, Northwestern, South Florida, Navy, Tulsa.
How many of those losses came in Kelly’s last 5 seasons or in the years they made the BCS/CFP? None. That’s the relevant comparison at this point to the program Kelly left Freeman, not where the program was when he was still building it up. Kelly didn’t losing to any teams who didn’t finish ranked in his last 5 years at ND and 6 of the 9 losses were to Top 5 teams.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 11:45 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Penn State Passing Yards
Vs Notre Dame - 135
Vs Boise St - 171
Vs SMU - 136
I don't think Notre Dame is as elite against the pass as it seems, however they're going to avoid any elite quarterbacks.
According to this ND guy, SMU & Boise must have elite passing defenses. Penn St passing offense sucks. ND simply shut down the run in second half, forcing Allar to beat them & he couldn't.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 12:30 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
What year did Brian Kelly win a playoff game?
When did Kelly play a playoff game against someone other than Alabama and Clemson programs that dominated that era?
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