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Message
re: Coaching...too early to compare Marcus Freeman to Brian Kelly?
Posted on 12/6/24 at 7:07 am to Big EZ Tiger
Posted on 12/6/24 at 7:07 am to Big EZ Tiger
BK knew EXACTLY who Daniel's was BEFORE LSU & BEFORE Arizona State is my point...
He Was the MVP of the bowl game his freshman season at ASU...
He PASSED for over 2000 yards that freshman season...
He has ALWAYS been a dual threat player it didn't start at LSU because of BK,Sloan or anyone else...
The kid was coached by former NFL players for 3 seasons in Tempe!
He was recruited as a passing and running QB not 1 of the 2!!
Do you even know the numbers he put up in high school??
The bulk of the 5900+ career passing yards for the Sun Devils came in his FIRST and THIRD seasons because Covid cut his sophomore season short...
He had a total of 3 interceptions in 1 full freshman season plus the bowl game and an abbreviated Covid sophomore season!
I'm not even adding his career total rushing yards and rushing touchdowns?!
You appear to be suggesting he was a better running QB than passer which isn't true at any point in his career..
The same thing 25 D-1 ,,Top 25 programs saw in him was the same thing BK saw in him...
A program changing,dominant QB...
Not only the entire Pac 12 but ALL the West Coast football schools have successfully recruited Southern California high school and JUCO players for decades...
Daniel's chose Arizona State because of the strong possibility to start as a freshman and the staff Herm Edwards had in place..
He only looked to transfer because of the pending recruiting violations/pending sanctions/ imminent firing of the Herm Regime!
Surely you are not implying that he wouldn't have been just as successful at Tennessee, Ohio State, Florida State,Oregon, Georgia ,USC and the other schools(that wanted him once and wanted him after he became available a second time)?
He didn't FAIL or DISSAPOINT as a dual threat QB in 3 college seasons..
Whether he won the Heisman or not,barring a catastrophic injury,he was getting drafted to the NFL..
He would have the same chance for greater team success at any of those top schools...
Everyone watched his efforts when plays broke down.
It's evident that his talent and skills erased blown assignments by the offensive line.
It was evident that he studied film from his first season at LSU ..
It was also evident that spending an off season working out his receiving crew garnered trust and respect for all parties ..
Yes BK gets loads of credit for recruiting JD .
Every college football coach in America knew that the ASU players could leave after the upheaval.
Coach BK quietly recruited JD because he didn't want to lose him.
He recruited JD because he knew he needed more competition at QB and a better QB..
If LSU didn't get JD he would have looked elsewhere.
But BK's main contribution to those 2 years was tuning out the naysayers THAT DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE about JD's high school and college accomplishments...
He WAS NEVER a running back playing quarterback..
He didn't suddenly learn how to read the defense, scan the field,go through progressions, command an offense
and pass at a high percentage rate
after 1 off-season .
He did it for 3 years prior and I typed this long post for anyone and everyone repeatedly claiming LSU,BK,Sloan etc MADE JD into a successful QB .
He arrived in Baton Rouge as an in demand quality and qualified QB.
He arrived as a high percentage skilled passer and decisive,fast processing, quick thinking qb in total command of the offense as well as deceptively fast,elusive runner..
He Was the MVP of the bowl game his freshman season at ASU...
He PASSED for over 2000 yards that freshman season...
He has ALWAYS been a dual threat player it didn't start at LSU because of BK,Sloan or anyone else...
The kid was coached by former NFL players for 3 seasons in Tempe!
He was recruited as a passing and running QB not 1 of the 2!!
Do you even know the numbers he put up in high school??
The bulk of the 5900+ career passing yards for the Sun Devils came in his FIRST and THIRD seasons because Covid cut his sophomore season short...
He had a total of 3 interceptions in 1 full freshman season plus the bowl game and an abbreviated Covid sophomore season!
I'm not even adding his career total rushing yards and rushing touchdowns?!
You appear to be suggesting he was a better running QB than passer which isn't true at any point in his career..
The same thing 25 D-1 ,,Top 25 programs saw in him was the same thing BK saw in him...
A program changing,dominant QB...
Not only the entire Pac 12 but ALL the West Coast football schools have successfully recruited Southern California high school and JUCO players for decades...
Daniel's chose Arizona State because of the strong possibility to start as a freshman and the staff Herm Edwards had in place..
He only looked to transfer because of the pending recruiting violations/pending sanctions/ imminent firing of the Herm Regime!
Surely you are not implying that he wouldn't have been just as successful at Tennessee, Ohio State, Florida State,Oregon, Georgia ,USC and the other schools(that wanted him once and wanted him after he became available a second time)?
He didn't FAIL or DISSAPOINT as a dual threat QB in 3 college seasons..
Whether he won the Heisman or not,barring a catastrophic injury,he was getting drafted to the NFL..
He would have the same chance for greater team success at any of those top schools...
Everyone watched his efforts when plays broke down.
It's evident that his talent and skills erased blown assignments by the offensive line.
It was evident that he studied film from his first season at LSU ..
It was also evident that spending an off season working out his receiving crew garnered trust and respect for all parties ..
Yes BK gets loads of credit for recruiting JD .
Every college football coach in America knew that the ASU players could leave after the upheaval.
Coach BK quietly recruited JD because he didn't want to lose him.
He recruited JD because he knew he needed more competition at QB and a better QB..
If LSU didn't get JD he would have looked elsewhere.
But BK's main contribution to those 2 years was tuning out the naysayers THAT DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE about JD's high school and college accomplishments...
He WAS NEVER a running back playing quarterback..
He didn't suddenly learn how to read the defense, scan the field,go through progressions, command an offense
and pass at a high percentage rate
after 1 off-season .
He did it for 3 years prior and I typed this long post for anyone and everyone repeatedly claiming LSU,BK,Sloan etc MADE JD into a successful QB .
He arrived in Baton Rouge as an in demand quality and qualified QB.
He arrived as a high percentage skilled passer and decisive,fast processing, quick thinking qb in total command of the offense as well as deceptively fast,elusive runner..
2
Posted on 12/6/24 at 7:18 am to TigerFlash
Freeman had one of the easiest schedules in major college football; Kelly had one of the most difficult. ND needs to finally nut up and join a conference. Their brand is no longer that great.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 7:29 am to Tchefuncte Tiger
Never say never but ND has not ever come close to joining a conference for football..
Still betting on their brand and not having to share the lucrative tv money..
The other sports are doing okay conference wise therefore it's going to take something major to force them to join a conference...
Who knows maybe NIL may be the boost they need to attract the players to put them on equal footing with the championship teams.
Still betting on their brand and not having to share the lucrative tv money..
The other sports are doing okay conference wise therefore it's going to take something major to force them to join a conference...
Who knows maybe NIL may be the boost they need to attract the players to put them on equal footing with the championship teams.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 7:36 am to TigerFlash
Freeman has Denbrock and Al Golden. You can’t underestimate the value of that. Notre Dame, arguably, has the best coordinator duo in college sports.
At this point, I think I’d trust Marcus Freeman in ranked matchups over Kelly.
At this point, I think I’d trust Marcus Freeman in ranked matchups over Kelly.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 7:37 am to 1970sPurpleKnight
quote:
Never say never but ND has not ever come close to joining a conference for football..
That’s not true. They tried to join the Big Ten, but Michigan blocked it.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 7:46 am to TigerFlash
If Marcus had played LSU's schedule this year, they would not be in the playoffs. Its fricking apples to oranges. And I don't even like Brian Kelly. But this topic is stupid.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 8:17 am to GentleJackJones
That was IN THE 1900s before current TV deals when Michigan denied them entry.
Was it even the Big Ten then?
The talks in the early 2000s were broken off by Notre Dame at the last minute according to Mike
Brey who coached mens basketball.
In modern times especially after NCAA teams were allowed to broker their own tv deals(middle '80s);Notre Dame football hasn't initiated an attempt to join the Big Ten or any other conference.
Was it even the Big Ten then?
The talks in the early 2000s were broken off by Notre Dame at the last minute according to Mike
Brey who coached mens basketball.
In modern times especially after NCAA teams were allowed to broker their own tv deals(middle '80s);Notre Dame football hasn't initiated an attempt to join the Big Ten or any other conference.
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 8:20 am
Posted on 12/6/24 at 8:32 am to 1970sPurpleKnight
quote:Jayden Daniels
He did it for 3 years prior and I typed this long post for anyone and everyone repeatedly claiming LSU,BK,Sloan etc MADE JD into a successful QB .
2019 . Comp% . 60.7% . Rating . 140.21 . YPA . 8.7
2020 . Comp% . 58.3% . Rating . 145.60 . YPA . 8.3
2021 . Comp% . 65.4% . Rating . 136.19 . YPA . 7.9
2022 . Comp% . 68.6% . Rating . 144.54 . YPA . 7.5
2023 . Comp% . 72.2% . Rating . 208.01 . YPA . 11.7
It's apparent that LSU,BK,Sloan MADE JD into a MUCH MORE successful QB. That's a HUGE leap after he was at LSU for a year.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 8:35 am to TigerFlash
Agreed! BK has skins on the wall. Talk to me at the end of their careers
Posted on 12/6/24 at 8:39 am to TigerBait2008
quote:
One plays a real schedule the other plays 1 game a year so no.
Notre Dame beat two of the teams LSU lost to
Posted on 12/6/24 at 9:04 am to Salviati
Point is he had already HAD SUCCESS..
There were many fans with the unfair and outright wrong narrative that LSU rescued JD.
Plus on this very board during season 1,after season 1 non JD fans called him "a running back playing quarterback "...
Everything he did prior to LSU highlighted his talent and potential!
I don't think he would have passed for 4000 yards his last year at ASU nor complete 75% of his passes ..
There's no way to know that but facts and numbers confirmed that injuries to the receivers and dropped passes contributed to the "ONLY 65% "completion
rate...
There were many fans with the unfair and outright wrong narrative that LSU rescued JD.
Plus on this very board during season 1,after season 1 non JD fans called him "a running back playing quarterback "...
Everything he did prior to LSU highlighted his talent and potential!
I don't think he would have passed for 4000 yards his last year at ASU nor complete 75% of his passes ..
There's no way to know that but facts and numbers confirmed that injuries to the receivers and dropped passes contributed to the "ONLY 65% "completion
rate...
Posted on 12/6/24 at 9:56 am to Salviati
My last words..
What did Herm Edwards and his NFL staff see when they recruited JD?
Herm said a very talented qb who could throw the long ball with accuracy and didn't turn the ball over!
What did Oregon,USC,Florida State, Tennessee, Georgia ,Utah and the other schools that made up JD'S 25 D-1 offers see?
The EXACT SAME THING THAT LSU SAW...
A talented qb that could beat a defense with the pass and could beat the defense with his football intelligence plus his running.
He wasn't a project.
He thrived no matter what conference he was in.
In the pass happy Pac 12 ,in 2 full seasons he was a few hundred passing yards shy of 6000 career ...
How many qbs at any level raise their percentage from 65 to 85 in 1 season without being reckless ,turning the ball over?
I just don't accept that BK and Sloan were qb whisperers.
I attribute it to the prior coaching in high school,former NFL professional coaching staff at ASU and the work put in by JD in Southern California, Arizona(before and during LSU)Baton Rouge
between seasons 1and 2...
By the time he was in B.R. they were only repeating what had been coached and drilled in him since his freshman season in high school.
You have the talent,work hard to maximize your talent and keep improving...
Nobody predicted the Heisman but every college coach and recruiter thought privately ( a few said publicly) that he could be 1 of the best in D-1 football.
The schools that targeted him when neither Notre Dame or LSU gave serious consideration;all had a recent run of conference championship appearances ,good college quartbacks,national title appearances or a combination of the above....
I agree wholeheartedly that it was a successful match.
I also believe he would have been the USC QB BEFORE Caleb left OU.....
He would have been a multi year starter at Utah,Georgia, Florida State, Ohio State, UCLA,Tennessee and every school that wanted him.
What did Herm Edwards and his NFL staff see when they recruited JD?
Herm said a very talented qb who could throw the long ball with accuracy and didn't turn the ball over!
What did Oregon,USC,Florida State, Tennessee, Georgia ,Utah and the other schools that made up JD'S 25 D-1 offers see?
The EXACT SAME THING THAT LSU SAW...
A talented qb that could beat a defense with the pass and could beat the defense with his football intelligence plus his running.
He wasn't a project.
He thrived no matter what conference he was in.
In the pass happy Pac 12 ,in 2 full seasons he was a few hundred passing yards shy of 6000 career ...
How many qbs at any level raise their percentage from 65 to 85 in 1 season without being reckless ,turning the ball over?
I just don't accept that BK and Sloan were qb whisperers.
I attribute it to the prior coaching in high school,former NFL professional coaching staff at ASU and the work put in by JD in Southern California, Arizona(before and during LSU)Baton Rouge
between seasons 1and 2...
By the time he was in B.R. they were only repeating what had been coached and drilled in him since his freshman season in high school.
You have the talent,work hard to maximize your talent and keep improving...
Nobody predicted the Heisman but every college coach and recruiter thought privately ( a few said publicly) that he could be 1 of the best in D-1 football.
The schools that targeted him when neither Notre Dame or LSU gave serious consideration;all had a recent run of conference championship appearances ,good college quartbacks,national title appearances or a combination of the above....
I agree wholeheartedly that it was a successful match.
I also believe he would have been the USC QB BEFORE Caleb left OU.....
He would have been a multi year starter at Utah,Georgia, Florida State, Ohio State, UCLA,Tennessee and every school that wanted him.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:16 am to LSBoosie
quote:
People love to talk about how many games that BK won at Notre Dame but now that he’s not there, winning a bunch of games at Notre Dame isn’t that impressive.
It's not the number of wins that is impressive, it's that he brought relevancy and winning consistently back to Notre Dame.
Comparing Freeman (Post Kelly) to Les Miles (post Saban) is more relevant than comparing Freeman to Kelly.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:32 am to Sevendust912
quote:
ND would smother LSU this year. Sad what LSU has become under Kelly.
Based on what?
They didn't face a legitimate QB all season and then when they faced a Lincoln Riley offense, they gave up 500 yards and 35 points.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:36 am to TigerFlash
You act like BK wasn’t 11-1 when leaving ND. If Freeman wins a natty, I’ll be impressed
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:48 am to LSBoosie
This season it’s pretty futile to make the comparison given all the parity. Does LSU beat NIU at home? Does Notre Dame beat A&M on the road in week 8? Does LSU lose to A&M week 1 with Conor Weigman? Does LSU beat USC last Saturday? All worthless hypotheticals.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:50 am to The Boat
quote:They also lost to NIU.
Notre Dame beat two of the teams LSU lost to
That is inexcusable.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 10:52 am to John Casey
quote:
They didn't face a legitimate QB all season and then when they faced a Lincoln Riley offense, they gave up 500 yards and 35 points.
Since a lot of people want to bring up the "what if" USCe game...
ND very well could have lost to SC.
But they don't want to talk about that...
Posted on 12/6/24 at 11:12 am to John Casey
quote:
It's not the number of wins that is impressive, it's that he brought relevancy and winning consistently back to Notre Dame.
I agree and it’s very impressive what he did. But I see people on here that use the fact that he the 2nd winningest coach in college football as the only reason reason that he is 100% currently better than a guy that has been a head coach for 3 or 4 years.
Posted on 12/6/24 at 11:16 am to That LSU Guy
quote:
That is inexcusable.
Is going 4-8 in year 7 excusable? Apparently so because we hired the knucklehead.
But you know what's really inexcusable? The Bama debacle. Two weeks to prepare. Home game. Night game. Chance to redeem ourselves after the collapse in College Station. Ostensibly an elimination game. 33 years of HC experience and that's what we get?
This post was edited on 12/6/24 at 12:43 pm
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