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re: Best LSU RB ever??
Posted on 2/15/09 at 1:28 am to HITMAN202
Posted on 2/15/09 at 1:28 am to HITMAN202
quote:I would have to disagree. Even as a small child I noticed many, many plays where Alexander looked VERY special.
Even healthy, Alexander wasn't the type of back that you would watch and say, "That guy is special!"
quote:Whether you are talking about Harvey, Keiland, or Germaine, I'd have to say the answer is no. I don't think any of them had any season that outshined any of Faulk's.
do you think Williams ,as a sophomore outshined Faulk's sophomore year???
0
Posted on 2/15/09 at 1:28 am to jbest
Not only all that, but I know I listened to at least 20 games where Faulk ran or recieved for at least 50 yard gains that were called back for holding penalties that had nothing to do with his runs or pass receiptions. Think about those numbers added to what he did accomplish.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 5:56 am to LA007
quote:
My highschool coach, an all SEC LB at MSU, who wasn't a big story teller, once said that Jimmy Taylor was the hardest back to bring down that he ever played against.
There is an old story that gets passed around, and I've heard it from my dad many, many times. Jim Brown was once asked, "Who is the toughest, meanest defender that you faced?" His answer was, immediately, Ray Nitsche. When Ray Nitsche was asked, "Who was the guy you least wanted to have to try to tackle?", he said, "Brown was probably the best back we faced, but Jimmy Taylor was the guy I least wanted to tackle. He gave as good as he got, and if you did get him down, he was going to gouge your eyes, kick you in the groin, bite you, whatever, do something to you before the refs got the pile untangled."
And that was years before Jack Lambert...
Posted on 2/15/09 at 6:08 am to Tigershatebama
quote:
Are you sure that Cannon was playing defense at this time?? I only ask because I read this just yesterday. Maybe white team played 1st down then the chinese bandits went in for 2nd - 4th??
Just from my limited knowledge of the period - the platoon system was being tried in a few places, but prior to the mid-50s rule change regarding limited substitutions, the best guys played both ways, period, and got relieved when they were gassed.
I don't know what the thinking was, but football instituted a rule that limited the number of substitutions (other than for injury) a team could make, and I think it was by quarter. Dietzel's response was one of the earliest successful platoon systems: Three teams, the best team "White Team", short yard offensive "Gold Team" (later shortened to "Go Team"), and the defensive specialists that came to be known as the Chinese Bandits. He would situationally swap out, and depending on what happened in the game, I believe that sometimes the Go team ended up on defense for brief periods and the Bandits ended up on offense for brief periods, but normally they were swapped based on whether or not the White Team needed a rest or not, and whether or not a substitution could be made at that point in the game.
It has always been the consensus that when the game was on the line, Dietzel wanted the White Team on the field, regardless of who had the ball and where it was on the field. I also believe that Cannon made, or assisted in, the 4th and 1 at the one to preserve the win against Ole Miss on Halloween.
Hope this helps....
Posted on 2/15/09 at 6:28 am to Kelvinator
quote:
What is your problem with Alexander? It can't be based upon facts because the fact is he was one of the greatest running backs ever at LSU.
The immediate post Casanova/post Jones era often gets overlooked. We had lots of great players over Mac's last 6 years, and Alexander was by far the best. People forget that LSU has had only about 8 legitimate Heisman candidates (by my count - someone correct me if I missed somebody or if I exaggerated a candidacy), if you count defenders Casanova and Dorsey, along with backs and receivers, Cannon, Stovall, Jones, Alexander, Faulk and Josh Reed. (Note- Certainly Jamarcus Russell would have finished 1, 2 or 3 in the voting had he returned with comparable numbers in 2007 and had we still won the championship. Since he didn't return, I didn't count him.)
Cannon won it, Stovall came in second, but only Cannon and Alexander finished in the top 10 of voting, twice.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 8:22 am to CreoleAubie
quote:
I still say that Dalton Hilliard is the most amazing and effective RB I have ever seen at LSU during modern times
What separates Hilliard from the others on my list -- and certainly a few others not previously mentioned - Joe Addai, Dominick Davis (Allen), Cecil Collins -- is that Hilliard was not big, or particularly strong or fast. He would be a bit smallish by today's standards for an every down back, 5'8", around 195lbs (which he carried very well). He had an adequate combination of physical traits and athleticism which he maximized (much like Jerry Rice, who was only really blessed with great straight line speed as a youngster, and a work ethic).
Nobody was going to give more effort to every carry than Hilliard and nobody was going to outwork him. That's why he remains one of my all-time favorite LSU players and Saints players.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 11:00 am to CreoleAubie
Minus the dreads, Lache Seatrunk seems almost like a Dalton prototype. I hope we get him.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 11:01 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:
if collins didn't like watching bitches sleep he would be the best ever.
word!!!
Posted on 2/15/09 at 1:41 pm to SG_Geaux
quote:
So do you want the best LSU RB or the best NFL career by an LSU RB ?
Good point.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 3:01 pm to HITMAN202
Dalton Hillard--
Posted on 2/15/09 at 3:03 pm to CreoleAubie
I don't know if its been mentioned but Alley B. would be right in the thick of this if he didn't get hurt before the start of 05.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 3:11 pm to LA007
quote:
My highschool coach, an all SEC LB at MSU, who wasn't a big story teller, once said that Jimmy Taylor was the hardest back to bring down that he ever played against.
My Dad all metro end on Jesuit's State Championship team in 1952...a team that also featured Mickey LaNasa and Ritchie Pettibohn. Anyway, they played Taylor's Baton Rouge High (I think that's right) that year and beat them...but my Dad always talked about how hard it was trying to bring own Taylor. Like tackling a car he said...
Posted on 2/15/09 at 6:27 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
What separates Hilliard from the others on my list
On the subject of great players commenting on other players, I believe Ronnie Lott said that Hilliard was the hardest back to tackle that he faced (during Hilliard's best days with the Saints).
Nobody cut like Barry Sanders, but Hilliard was pretty close, and his lower body strength and desire to finish runs was impressive.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 6:30 pm to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
but my Dad always talked about how hard it was trying to bring own Taylor. Like tackling a car he said...
Interesting that many who played against him corroborate that about Taylor.
Posted on 2/15/09 at 6:42 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
i cant help but wonder how amazing K. Williams would have been with more carries.
< Charles Scott
Posted on 2/16/09 at 3:43 pm to LA007
quote:
Nobody cut like Barry Sanders, but Hilliard was pretty close, and his lower body strength and desire to finish runs was impressive.
Hilliard was not a "bruising" back, by any stretch. However, in short yardage situations (and virtually any time he was in traffic), he maintained outstanding running form, kept his weight low, knees pumping, and was usually very effective at finding where he could lean and fall forward when he finally did go down. Situationally, he could run as effectively as a larger, stronger back. Because of his good form, his leg drive would disrupt tackling attempts between the tackles.
Jimmy Taylor, on the other hand, being more naturally an old school fullback, sought to initiate contact, whenever possible, and his general goal was to demoralize the opposition by inflicting more damage than was done to him. He would run to daylight if possible, but there were many instances where it was him against one or two remaining defenders and he chose the spot of the tackle and initiated the hit.
Posted on 2/16/09 at 3:48 pm to Ace Midnight
Billy Cannon gets my vote
Posted on 2/16/09 at 4:38 pm to HITMAN202
quote:
Even healthy, Alexander wasn't the type of back that you would watch and say, "That guy is special!" Williams and Davis and Toefield and even Vicent would create some awe. I did forget about the hamstring deal. By the way, do you think Williams ,as a sophomore outshined Faulk's sophomore year???
Difference of opinion. There were games during his Junior year where Alexander shredded "8 men in the box". 7, 8, 9 carries in a row culminating in an Alexander touchdown run. "Another Alexander Drive" was often heard from John Ferguson. He was seen as special to many on those nights. Harvey Williams sophomore season (pre-blown knee) he was quite a force but I'd give Faulk the slightest of advantages due to his kick-returning.
Posted on 2/16/09 at 4:40 pm to CalBengal
quote:
There was this black fry cook that beat out Billy Cannon in his prime in a foot race, edging him out at the end, despite having a bum knee. It was portrayed in some movie with Dennis Kucinich, or some other actor. Did we ever recruit that guy, or was that before desegregation?
That was fictional and way before integration at that.
Posted on 2/16/09 at 4:47 pm to Tiger Vision
quote:
One night in '77 we watched Alexander the Great carry nine consecutive plays in an 80 yard td drive against Oregon
One night in '96 we watched K. Faulk carry one time for an 80 yard td against Houston.
Having seen both events, the more impressive to me was Alexander battering 8 and 9 men stacked in the box from one end of the field to the other, like a claw hammer driving a 20 penny nail through an oak plank.
By the way, Alexander had many long runs as well and would have been a step faster than Faulk in the 40. I do rate KF ahead of Alexander and behind Cannon for 2nd all-time at LSU.
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