re: Athlon Coach Rankings - Ed O at 81

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If you don't know what the plan is, can you call it realism when you say it sucks? With you anti-CEO guys Ed O gets no credit for his 2 interim HC gigs.

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Being an interim coach =/= beaing a head coach. These are different skill sets, and success at one does not automatically correlate with success in the other. So yes, O's interim tenure's count, but his tenure as a Head Coach at OM is the only direct comparison we have.

It's like being a real novelist vs. being an editor. There are lots of failed writers out there who are actually very, very good at taking someone else's work and getting the best out of it.

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Gene Chizik went 14-0 and won a national championship. He's great, shoulda hired him!

Gene Chizik went 3-9 and got fired, that's Ed Orgeron level stuff, he sucks!

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Who says hire Chizik? Literally no one is saying that.

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Which is it? Is CEO's record as head coach 10-25 with his "only job" being a disaster or is it 22-29 with his last two jobs being somewhat decent at avoiding disaster?
Which one we picking today?

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No one pick's anything on a particular day. But yes, his OM stint should carry more weight than his interims on ANY day, it is the only direct correlation to the current situation.

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Btw, on this very same list Fat Bert is #27/#5 SEC overall with a sub .500 record and 10 SEC wins in 4 years (first one ever against Les Miles' LSU). So we're going with this list right? So confirmed, Ed O sux. List, et al, says so.

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I'm not concerned about Sports writers' opinions.

I'm more concerned that Ed never had a successful, head coach interview or hire process after Ole Miss. We're betting on the fact that Ole Miss was a fluke, an outlier to O's true potential, that's our gamble. But those two things do kind of matchup: O is does not have respect of writers, his peers, or Athletic Directors as head coach material, otherwise, he would have been one somewhere else.

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CEO has stated one of his biggest issues at Ole Miss, and there were many, was micromanaging. If he has indeed gone the other way with that, you know... learned his lessons, AND he can surround himself with good coordinators he is likely to let them do their job AND do it like they know how.

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The best coaches are micro managers. Look at the guy in Tuscaloosa. Look at the guy in Foxboro. Also, "hiring the best coordinators" is a crap shoot. Gary Crowton was a hot name at the time he was hired. Look at Cam Cameron's resume. In college, you recruit the best athletes you can find to fit your scheme. Changing that scheme every couple years isn't conducive to success. You may have some guys that can fit your new scheme, but your roster will be fitted to the last one. Basically, O is playing this card to buy himself a couple years every time he has to hire a new OC or DC.

I will just say one thing here.... I'll take 9-3.....

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The best coaches are micro managers. Look at the guy in Tuscaloosa. Look at the guy in Foxboro. Also, "hiring the best coordinators" is a crap shoot. Gary Crowton was a hot name at the time he was hired. Look at Cam Cameron's resume. In college, you recruit the best athletes you can find to fit your scheme. Changing that scheme every couple years isn't conducive to success. You may have some guys that can fit your new scheme, but your roster will be fitted to the last one. Basically, O is playing this card to buy himself a couple years every time he has to hire a new OC or DC.

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I'm going to agree with you in principle, but not with the term micromanagers. They are indeed expert managers, and teachers, and communicators (to me it takes all 3).

The difference would be who do you manage, where do you spend your resources. A micromanager HC will bet trying to teach the WRs how to get off the line, the QB route progressions, and the DL hand techniques.

A manager, like Saban, will teach his WR coach, his QB coach/OC, and his DC/DL coach. Yeah he'll spend time with the players. But most of his effort will be coaching the coaches. Only so much time in a day, and can spread yourself out only so much.

Why do you think Saban is so hard on the coaches that work for him. The expectations on them are higher than on the players, that's only way to get the most out of each and every player. Or at least each one that buys in and puts in effort.

Glad you brought up Bellichek. He's the best example of what I love about D minded HCs. The Pats will run it 38 times a game sometimes... if the opponent can't stop the run. Hell, they've had 60 passes in a game... if there's weakness in the secondary (or can't pressure Brady). He's not a spread guy, a passing guy, a ground-game guy. He's a attack you at your weakest guy on offense and like any good defensive minded coach, take away your strength on defense. And he's constantly finding those weaknesses and attacking them... in-game. You adjust, he adjusts. That's the definition of lining up and beating your opponent. If he can't move around the pieces to at least hide or cover up those weaknesses. Every 3 min is like a crotch shot, or break the nose, next 3 min he's pinching a nerve. In the game. You can't plan for the Pats if you have holes.

ETA: for the turds that want to take the Chizik example literally, as in Chizik is who they should've hired the point went over your head. If all that matters is record, which is all some cite in regards to CEO, and some only the Ole Miss record... well, if you didn't get the jest of the point then, you won't now. So carry on.

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manager, like Saban, will teach his WR coach, his QB coach/OC, and his DC/DL coach. Yeah he'll spend time with the players. But most of his effort will be coaching the coaches. Only so much time in a day, and can spread yourself out only so much.

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You make very good points. What I quoted you on is just the thing about O. He did admit that while at OM, he was actually trying to coach all of the different position groups, and he has supposedly changed. But, he's never even been a coordinator leading a group of position coaches and teaching them, and the only time he's been over a program and leading guys in this sense is at OM. Since OM, he's worked under Sean Payton, Lane Kiffin and Les Miles. Did he really learn a lot from Kiffin and Miles? He worked under Pete Carroll and Jimmy Johnson for years before OM, why didn't he use what he learned from these two in 2005? LSU is not the place for a failed HC to prove he's changed.

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Bottom line, LSU may have the best coaching staff ever assembled. 

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It's not even the best lsu staff of this century.


Have you forgotten
Saban,jimbo,and muschamp?
You clearly don't know shite about lsu history.

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I will just say one thing here.... I'll take 9-3.....

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Just further proof of your bias. So now 9-3 is acceptable?

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I will just say one thing here.... I'll take 9-3.....


Just further proof of your bias. So now 9-3 is acceptable?

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In general, I'll say a 9-3 record is not acceptable to me. Maybe if that means a 2nd place SECW finish, otherwise no.

One of the reasons I converted from a Miles Hopeful, "he'll change this year" to "he gotta go- now" was 5th and 4th place SECW finishes, especially with improved recruiting. Considering our competition 3rd place is ok every now and then over a long period of time but that's about it. And that applies to Miles, CEO, or any other coach with this talent (and he better get and maintain said talent too).

And for the record, I agree with you saying why didn't CEO use these lessons in the past. He had plenty of time. He needs to show it, in all facets. Many posts up I cited why I have hope for CEO and why I think there is reasons to be hopeful. I will say this, this is his first chance since OM to apply those lessons. He didn't apply anything learned under Carroll at OM, no doubt. But maybe it was not using his example at OM that was the real lesson. It remains to be seen. But like Michael Jordan says- I have failed many times, that is why I succeed.

Having not been a coordinator, do not care. I gave my reasons why I think defensive minded coaches make the best HCs. They will have to set the pace and direction for the OC but will have to rely on him anyway. In my mind, he was DC qualified anyway.

Also for the record, I wanted Mike MacIntyre to be given a shot. I was told by a higher up at TAF that he was reached out to quietly because of contract entanglements and was not interested. I do not know if he was telling me what I wanted to hear or was the truth. Or if that happened with several others. Basically LSU was considered a land mine filled position with being in the SECW (with Saban), budgetary issues at the school, a President and AD not on same page, following the Miles legacy, the expectations, and the botched firing. I'm of the mindset we could have done worse. One of the worst things LSU could've done was hire a mercenary coach who would have used us as a stepping stone because with that list above and then to start dropping off in talent would've likely been a disaster. There are many names that would fit that bill, Tom Herman is one of them.

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I'll give you this Rickdaddy, you've evolved your position. Your response to anything CEO used to be something along the lines about how good Miles was, winningest coach, 10 win seasons, etc. At least now your anti-CEO responses are no longer pro-Miles and are at least using direct attacks on CEO, some legitimate.

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I've never once used a pro miles stance in an o discussion. I don't have to. O's lack of any success outside of dline coach speaks for itself.

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HC doesn't run the offense and defense anyway. That's a coordinators job. So the interim tag is why he wasn't doing that as a HC? You're merging the "never been a coordinator" with a "never run a successful program" complaints. 

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Only someone that doesnt know football would say an interim tenure is actually running a program

Wow....