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re: 1966 College Football Season
Posted on 7/6/09 at 6:18 am to Ralph_Wiggum
Posted on 7/6/09 at 6:18 am to Ralph_Wiggum
Thanks for the correction. So apparently the Big 10 being really the Big 2 is a very recent phenomena...maybe just the last 30 years of so...
0
Posted on 7/6/09 at 7:38 am to Ralph_Wiggum
Big Ten was good back then because they were able to recruit down South. Once the black athlete starting playing in the SEC many of the Big Ten schools lost their recruiting base.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 8:44 am to Rockerbraves
Yes, Michigan State and Minnesota to a lesser extent did a good job of recruiting black players from the South, but Michigan State also recruited well in Michigan and the Midwest during the 1960s. Michigan was a growing state into the 1970s.
There are various reasons why Michigan and Ohio State started to dominate the big ten beginning in 1968. One is that Duffy Daugherty at Michigan State got closer to retirement.
People talk about Bo and Woody having a rivalry, but those two did work together to screw over other programs in the big ten especially MSU and presidents at other big ten schools in the 1970s wanted to de-emphasize athletics. There was a movement in the 1970s at various now BCS schools to not let football get too big and many presidens like the the one at Michigan State--Clifton Wharton during the 1970s felt that football hurt the academic reputation of the school.
Barry Switzer interviewed for the Michigan State job in the early 1970s and states that he would have taken the job, but he scared off the administrators at MSU with talk about wanting an airplane and some funds for him to use at his will. MSU was considered a plum job well into the 1970s based on its history and recruiting base.
Funny to think how college football in the 70s and 80s could have been different if he was offered the Michigan State job.
Bo and Woody did a good job of placing the microscope at other programs like Michigan State when their own programs when placed under the same microscope would have been put on penalties and probation and Bo did a very good job at not seeing a lot of things Michigan.
Bo was also the first college fb coach to really start negative recruiting and say bad things about other coaches and programs to recruits. Generally coaches would talk more about their positives and felt it was bad for the coaching fraternity to negatively recruit.
Old-timers like Duffy Daugherty and Bear Bryant would have never said the things Bo said about other programs. In fact Duffy and Bear were good friends. Bo was not very popular among his peers and most coaches in the big ten were happy that he had such a crappy bowl record.
Compare what coaches didn't say about Bo to when other college fb coaches pass away.
There are various reasons why Michigan and Ohio State started to dominate the big ten beginning in 1968. One is that Duffy Daugherty at Michigan State got closer to retirement.
People talk about Bo and Woody having a rivalry, but those two did work together to screw over other programs in the big ten especially MSU and presidents at other big ten schools in the 1970s wanted to de-emphasize athletics. There was a movement in the 1970s at various now BCS schools to not let football get too big and many presidens like the the one at Michigan State--Clifton Wharton during the 1970s felt that football hurt the academic reputation of the school.
Barry Switzer interviewed for the Michigan State job in the early 1970s and states that he would have taken the job, but he scared off the administrators at MSU with talk about wanting an airplane and some funds for him to use at his will. MSU was considered a plum job well into the 1970s based on its history and recruiting base.
Funny to think how college football in the 70s and 80s could have been different if he was offered the Michigan State job.
Bo and Woody did a good job of placing the microscope at other programs like Michigan State when their own programs when placed under the same microscope would have been put on penalties and probation and Bo did a very good job at not seeing a lot of things Michigan.
Bo was also the first college fb coach to really start negative recruiting and say bad things about other coaches and programs to recruits. Generally coaches would talk more about their positives and felt it was bad for the coaching fraternity to negatively recruit.
Old-timers like Duffy Daugherty and Bear Bryant would have never said the things Bo said about other programs. In fact Duffy and Bear were good friends. Bo was not very popular among his peers and most coaches in the big ten were happy that he had such a crappy bowl record.
Compare what coaches didn't say about Bo to when other college fb coaches pass away.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 8:53 am to marchballer
Alabama was screwed in the 1966 season. Really quirly stuff went on that year. First of all ,unlike Auburn's 2004 season,or Penn State's unbeaten seasons in 1968,1969,1973 and 1994, Alabama started out the season ranked #1. They did split the 1965 titles with Michigan State,who won the UPI poll awarded prior to bowls. Fortunately for Alabama, the AP awarded its title after the bowls,something it didn't do in 1964(which was good for Alabama since they lost the Orange) or 1966.
Now, there were some factors working against Alabama throughout the season.First of all they had won two straight AP titles in 1964 and 1965.Some felt no one was chomping at the bit for a team to win it three years in a row.Some claim racial factors throughout the South hurt Alabama.
That accusation is debatable,since Alabama did win the AP title in '64 and '65,as well as 1961.Auburn had won the AP title in 1957 and LSU did in 1958. Ole Miss and Arkansas won the FWAA national titles after the 1960 and 1964 seasons respectively.While that award doesn't carry much clout now, it was highly thought of in the early 60's--not like AP/UPI,but certainly a 'real title'. Also, Steve Spurrier of Florida won the Heisman in 1966.So while there certainly was contempt nationwide for Southern politics,you cannot say it bled over to football,too.
Alabama also played a perceived 'weak schedule'.Only two of Alabama's opponents,Tennessee and Ole Miss played in bowl games.LSU was only 5-4-1 and Auburn was 4-6.No one else scratched the surface.They missed out on playing SEC Co-Champ Georgia,who had a superb team in 1966 losing only once, 7-6 to eventual Liberty Bowl champion Miami-Florida.Georgia,who finished 4th in the polls, was arguably as good as anyone at the end of the season that year.
However,only two of Notre Dame's opponents played in bowls--Purdue and Southern Cal,who met each other in the 1967 Rose Bowl.The Irish themselves decline bowl invitations until 1969.(That Rose Bowl was played by less than "champion" conference representatives .Michigan State won the Big 10 in 1966,but do to the conference's no repeat rule,the Spartans had to stay home while the second place Boliermakers went to Pasadena.While Southern Cal did win the American Association of Western Universities, the forerunner to Pac 8,it did have the best record at 4-1,but lost to UCLA 14-7,who played one less game and was eligible to play in the Rose,but the conference voted for Southern Cal prior to the game). Notre Dame blistered Southern Cal 51-0 in Los Angeles the week after the famous/infamous 10-10 Notre Dame -Michigan State tie.
Only Purdue played in a bowl from Michigan State's list of opponents.It should be noted,however,that Michigan State did win the Big 10 and only the Big 10 champion or conference representative could go to a bowl,that being the Rose Bowl.
Notre Dame,Michigan State and Georgia did have excellent teams that season.But its just hard to comprehend how Alabama didn't win the title. Alabama pounded Nebraska 34-7 in the Sugar,but although the AP and UPI had awarded its titles to Notre Dame,the FWAA did as well.
Now, there were some factors working against Alabama throughout the season.First of all they had won two straight AP titles in 1964 and 1965.Some felt no one was chomping at the bit for a team to win it three years in a row.Some claim racial factors throughout the South hurt Alabama.
That accusation is debatable,since Alabama did win the AP title in '64 and '65,as well as 1961.Auburn had won the AP title in 1957 and LSU did in 1958. Ole Miss and Arkansas won the FWAA national titles after the 1960 and 1964 seasons respectively.While that award doesn't carry much clout now, it was highly thought of in the early 60's--not like AP/UPI,but certainly a 'real title'. Also, Steve Spurrier of Florida won the Heisman in 1966.So while there certainly was contempt nationwide for Southern politics,you cannot say it bled over to football,too.
Alabama also played a perceived 'weak schedule'.Only two of Alabama's opponents,Tennessee and Ole Miss played in bowl games.LSU was only 5-4-1 and Auburn was 4-6.No one else scratched the surface.They missed out on playing SEC Co-Champ Georgia,who had a superb team in 1966 losing only once, 7-6 to eventual Liberty Bowl champion Miami-Florida.Georgia,who finished 4th in the polls, was arguably as good as anyone at the end of the season that year.
However,only two of Notre Dame's opponents played in bowls--Purdue and Southern Cal,who met each other in the 1967 Rose Bowl.The Irish themselves decline bowl invitations until 1969.(That Rose Bowl was played by less than "champion" conference representatives .Michigan State won the Big 10 in 1966,but do to the conference's no repeat rule,the Spartans had to stay home while the second place Boliermakers went to Pasadena.While Southern Cal did win the American Association of Western Universities, the forerunner to Pac 8,it did have the best record at 4-1,but lost to UCLA 14-7,who played one less game and was eligible to play in the Rose,but the conference voted for Southern Cal prior to the game). Notre Dame blistered Southern Cal 51-0 in Los Angeles the week after the famous/infamous 10-10 Notre Dame -Michigan State tie.
Only Purdue played in a bowl from Michigan State's list of opponents.It should be noted,however,that Michigan State did win the Big 10 and only the Big 10 champion or conference representative could go to a bowl,that being the Rose Bowl.
Notre Dame,Michigan State and Georgia did have excellent teams that season.But its just hard to comprehend how Alabama didn't win the title. Alabama pounded Nebraska 34-7 in the Sugar,but although the AP and UPI had awarded its titles to Notre Dame,the FWAA did as well.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 9:08 am to H-Town Tiger
I remember the game well.
After the Super Bowl Game, Green Bay coach Vince Lombardi was asked " how does it feel to be the best football team in world"? His reply, "I don't know we haven't played Alabama!
The final polls had Green Bay #1, Kansas City #2, and Alabama #3.
After the Super Bowl Game, Green Bay coach Vince Lombardi was asked " how does it feel to be the best football team in world"? His reply, "I don't know we haven't played Alabama!
The final polls had Green Bay #1, Kansas City #2, and Alabama #3.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 9:47 am to I-59 Tiger
I'd have to say the real injustice of the 1966 season was ND being awarded the national title by playing for a tie. I can't imagine rewarding that in sports when it was the last game for both teams and was for the national title. I supposed since ND was ranked 1 and the game was played in East Lansing you can make a weak argument for ND for the MNC.
I actually think Michigan State and Alabama would have been better choices. No team should get rewarded for purposedly playing for a tie for the MNC. The ND-MSU game was not a playoff or anything it was the last game of the season. I guess you can argue that if No. 2 ties No. 1 and how ND played not to lose you can vote MSU for MNC since they played to win.
Alabama was just hurt by the numbers with their ranking going into the end of the season.
I actually think Michigan State and Alabama would have been better choices. No team should get rewarded for purposedly playing for a tie for the MNC. The ND-MSU game was not a playoff or anything it was the last game of the season. I guess you can argue that if No. 2 ties No. 1 and how ND played not to lose you can vote MSU for MNC since they played to win.
Alabama was just hurt by the numbers with their ranking going into the end of the season.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 9:50 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
I can't imagine rewarding that in sports when it was the last game for both teams and was for the national title.
Notre Dame buried Southern Cal the following week 51-0 in Los Angeles.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 10:10 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Notre Dame buried Southern Cal the following week 51-0 in Los Angeles.
OK that's right. They play USC in late November when the game is in Los Angeles.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 10:12 am to Ralph_Wiggum
Notre Dame's last drive in '66 Mich St game
Here is Michigan State's last punt and the final possession of that game. I've always felt Michigan State was more guilty of playing for a tie than the Irish.
Here is Michigan State's last punt and the final possession of that game. I've always felt Michigan State was more guilty of playing for a tie than the Irish.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 11:01 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Alabama started out the season ranked #1.
I have never understood why the polls that come out before the season should be treated like they were carved in stone.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 11:06 am to H-Town Tiger
Fair enough. But they went 10-0. Why should they have dropped ,and then why not go back to #1 over two teams with a tie ?
Posted on 7/6/09 at 11:12 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Fair enough. But they went 10-0. Why should they have dropped ,and then why not go back to #1 over two teams with a tie ?
The 1 and 2 teams tied. How does that prove Alabama should have jumped over them? If MSU had beaten ND they would have been mythical national champs that year. I think during the season ND and MSU were more impressive in their games than Alabama during the season.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 11:17 am to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:
The 1 and 2 teams tied. How does that prove Alabama should have jumped over them?
What did Alabama do to fall behind those two ?
Posted on 7/6/09 at 11:35 am to I-59 Tiger
quote:
What did Alabama do to fall behind those two ?
They weren't Notre Dame.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 12:59 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
Why should they have dropped ,
why shouldn't they? If the only reason you think they should not have dropped is because they started #1, you are treating the preason poll as the base that can not change, ie its carved in stone, unless the #1 team loses.
The other thing to consider is how the polls work. Most people look at the poll and forget or don't realize that its a consenus, made up of the ballots of several sports writers. More than likely there were several teams that got first place votes. If some team that got first places votes loses or doesn't play well, who ever was voting them #1 will move to a different team, doesn't have to be the consenus #1. The #1 team, especially early, may not even have the most first place votes, let alone a majority.
quote:
why not go back to #1 over two teams with a tie ?
If the #1 and # 2 teams tie each other, why should they drop?
This post was edited on 7/6/09 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 7/6/09 at 1:42 pm to H-Town Tiger
It was interesting scenario and is what created the matchups in the 70's between ND and Bama i the Sugar and orange Bowls. I watched a program with Rocky Bleier and Deacon Jones about the MSU-ND game and Bleier says we should have been 1st and Deacon says MSU was. Who KNows but I would've liked the opportunity with the team we had to try with either one.
To me 1977 was worse than that. Bama is 2 and we are beating number 8 Ohio St. 38-6 in the Sugar. We hear number one Texas is losing like 34-0 in the Cotton. We actually started to celebrate and it began running through the Superdome that this is ND and ND would leap from 5 to 1 and we would not move from 2 to 1. No other team would have leaped from 5. We needed to have beaten OSU by 51-6, which we could have done but honestly I dont think it would have mattered. As expected the leap from 5 to 1 happened. Twice ND has really had voters stick it to us. Moreso back then, there was a tremendous bias for ND and we paid dearly at least twice for it. To this day, I can't pull for ND because of these instances.
To me 1977 was worse than that. Bama is 2 and we are beating number 8 Ohio St. 38-6 in the Sugar. We hear number one Texas is losing like 34-0 in the Cotton. We actually started to celebrate and it began running through the Superdome that this is ND and ND would leap from 5 to 1 and we would not move from 2 to 1. No other team would have leaped from 5. We needed to have beaten OSU by 51-6, which we could have done but honestly I dont think it would have mattered. As expected the leap from 5 to 1 happened. Twice ND has really had voters stick it to us. Moreso back then, there was a tremendous bias for ND and we paid dearly at least twice for it. To this day, I can't pull for ND because of these instances.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:06 pm to BaysideBama
quote:
No other team would have leaped from 5.
who was 2,3,4 and what did they do?
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:11 pm to BaysideBama
quote:
To me 1977 was worse than that. Bama is 2 and we are beating number 8 Ohio St. 38-6 in the
Alabama was #3 before the bowls. #5 Notre Dame beat #1 Texas, 38-10 in the Cotton.#6 Arkansas beat #2 Oklahoma, 31-6 in the Orange and #3 Alabama beat #9 Ohio State 35-6 in the Sugar.
I understand Alabama being ticked,but its hard to deny Notre Dame their share,too. IMO 1966 is 100x worse for Alabama than '77.
The next year Alabama split the polls with a team it lost to at Legion Field by 10.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:20 pm to I-59 Tiger
Bama fans I know still count '66 as a MNC year.
Posted on 7/6/09 at 2:21 pm to I-59 Tiger
Bama fans I know still count '66 as a MNC year.
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