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Message
re: PJ Woodland does this guy seem super underrated?
Posted on 11/15/23 at 8:50 am to tigerfoot
Posted on 11/15/23 at 8:50 am to tigerfoot
But but but these 3 stars are DAWGS!! They’re going to be solid football players in 3 years!
You are absolutely correct. People just turn a blind eye to any failures by this staff.
You are absolutely correct. People just turn a blind eye to any failures by this staff.
1
Posted on 11/15/23 at 8:51 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Everyone signs 3-stars. Georgia currently has 5 committed. Alabama has 7 committed and LSU has 9. Michigan has 11. LSU has 16 4-stars, more than every school except Georgia and Oregon. Dumb narrative.
Thank you
Posted on 11/15/23 at 8:52 am to Wichita Co Tiger
Look, everyone has been talking about this for awhile, especially regarding this particular position. This is just my two cents:
Two highly regarded and rated players (high 4* top 100 or so), with as good or better programs offering them than other prospects, with film, and evaluated in camp settings decomitted.
The two that replaced them had gone to camps and didn’t get commitable offers. And, even though those 3* kids had good offers, some of those offers may not have been commitable. That tells you something.
And to those that say trust BK’s evaluations: remember, he only offered Causey and Woodland after the other two decommitted. His evaluations were obviously higher on Evans and Bates.
Also just want to say that the evaluations were probably made by Steeples, Cooks, and House, and maybe some shadow staff. BK probably gives his coordinators some latitude, especially on that side of the ball, when it comes to the evaluations.
Not all 5*, 4*, 3*, or whatever are created equally. Conversely, not all coordinators, position coaches, or their evaluations are created equally. I’m not comfortable in saying that I trust them.
This is a long way to say that I understand and somewhat agree with those who are concerned with who the coaches replaced the decommits. However, it goes deeper than star gazing with me.
Two highly regarded and rated players (high 4* top 100 or so), with as good or better programs offering them than other prospects, with film, and evaluated in camp settings decomitted.
The two that replaced them had gone to camps and didn’t get commitable offers. And, even though those 3* kids had good offers, some of those offers may not have been commitable. That tells you something.
And to those that say trust BK’s evaluations: remember, he only offered Causey and Woodland after the other two decommitted. His evaluations were obviously higher on Evans and Bates.
Also just want to say that the evaluations were probably made by Steeples, Cooks, and House, and maybe some shadow staff. BK probably gives his coordinators some latitude, especially on that side of the ball, when it comes to the evaluations.
Not all 5*, 4*, 3*, or whatever are created equally. Conversely, not all coordinators, position coaches, or their evaluations are created equally. I’m not comfortable in saying that I trust them.
This is a long way to say that I understand and somewhat agree with those who are concerned with who the coaches replaced the decommits. However, it goes deeper than star gazing with me.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:01 am to Wichita Co Tiger
quote:
Nevermind that we have a ton of 4 stars…we just have too many dang 3 stars for their liking
The idiots on this board believe that the only way to win championships is with 5 stars across the board (never mind the fact that we’ve won 3 fairly recently with the exact amount of 3 star 4 star and 5 star players on average that we currently have committed).
We’ve hit and missed year to year on positions forever. This is no different. A lot of people just got accustomed to having 4/5 star DBs and weaker D lines. Personally, I’d rather have a very strong D line and weaker DBs. A strong D line can stop an opponents running game in its tracks as well as disrupt their passing game. DBs can’t do the same on that level.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:13 am to mpwilging
quote:
Flott was a scare crow when he arrived at LSU and needed quite a bit of time to "weight-up". That he is now with NYG and sees PT, more power to him.
Flott started every game for LSU as a soph. Becoming a full time starter your soph season isn't bad at all.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:17 am to tigerfoot
Some areas of the country are scouted well and others are not, leading to some players from less populous states getting ranked lower.
Mississippi produces an incredible amount of NFL talent per capita but that doesn’t usually show up in recruiting service player rankings.
All I’m saying is a lot 3*s in Mississippi would probably be 4*s in the Atlanta or Miami areas.
And Ole Miss and Miss State like it this way.
DISCLAIMER: a class full of five stars is far more likely to have success than a class full of threes.
Mississippi produces an incredible amount of NFL talent per capita but that doesn’t usually show up in recruiting service player rankings.
All I’m saying is a lot 3*s in Mississippi would probably be 4*s in the Atlanta or Miami areas.
And Ole Miss and Miss State like it this way.
DISCLAIMER: a class full of five stars is far more likely to have success than a class full of threes.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:23 am to lsutiger2011
quote:It has nothing to do with this staff. This fanbase is cheap and does not support the NIL needed to compete. UGA averages 160k per player. LSU has 60K. We arent playing in the same sandlot.
People just turn a blind eye to any failures by this staff.
Hell, in Basketball the bluebloods are paying 300k per.....we are paying 15k per.
Who you think is going to win.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:26 am to BasilBogomil
quote:
a class full of five stars is far more likely to have success than a class full of threes.
The 5-stars and high 4-stars are easy to scout. There are a small amount of them and even a novice can see the talent and potential on most of them.
Where is starts getting difficult is with the low 4-stars and under. Recruiting services don't have the resources, talent or abilities to accurately scout the thousands of players, many of them in small towns without good film or accurate measureables.
I'm a believer in the star system as a whole, but when you dial it down to specific players below the elite level it can be wildly inaccurate.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:29 am to BasilBogomil
quote:And we see the SEC championships these teams are playing for, I think the three stars are just that, three stars. If they were just underrated, you would see one of these programs rise up and stay. That has not and will not happen.
All I’m saying is a lot 3*s in Mississippi would probably be 4*s in the Atlanta or Miami areas.
And Ole Miss and Miss State like it this way.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:29 am to tigerfoot
quote:
It has nothing to do with this staff. This fanbase is cheap and does not support the NIL needed to compete. UGA averages 160k per player. LSU has 60K. We arent playing in the same sandlot.
Hell, in Basketball the bluebloods are paying 300k per.....we are paying 15k per.
Who you think is going to win.
None of this is accurate. Also, there are already massive shifts in the NIL market. Elite players will continue to get paid, but about half of rosters will get little or nothing. Money will be spent for retaining players, not recruiting them (except for a handful of elite players).
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:33 am to tigerfoot
quote:
And we see the SEC championships these teams are playing for, I think the three stars are just that, three stars. If they were just underrated, you would see one of these programs rise up and stay. That has not and will not happen.
You are arguing with yourself. No one is saying that you can build a program on 3-stars. What the poster you were responding to is saying is that a lot of 3-stars are not scouted correctly, which is accurate.
All schools sign 3-stars. There are top 5 teams right now with double digit 3-stars committed.
LSU may end up with 10 3-stars. Alabama may end with 8. It's a dumb talking point.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:40 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:Correct, the argument was the two Miss schools benefitted from players being overlooked in Miss and being ranked as 3s, when they could be better.
You are arguing with yourself. No one is saying that you can build a program on 3-stars. What the poster you were responding to is saying is that a lot of 3-stars are not scouted correctly, which is accurate.
I pointed out that neither is winning championships.
quote:Then explain how those with higher recruiting rankings have decades of national success to point to versus those outside of the top 5 or so.
LSU may end up with 10 3-stars. Alabama may end with 8. It's a dumb talking point.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:42 am to mpwilging
There are a few more checkmarks you missed... Mental toughness and character. How do Denver Harris and Eli Ricks ( both 5 stars) rate there?
This post was edited on 11/15/23 at 11:15 am
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:45 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:It is all accurate
None of this is accurate
quote:That is the way it is now.
here are already massive shifts in the NIL market. Elite players will continue to get paid, but about half of rosters will get little or nothing
Average was the term used.
quote:That is not what is happening in 2023/2024. Recruits are landing huge deals at other schools that fund their programs.
Money will be spent for retaining players, not recruiting them (except for a handful of elite players).
LSU is laughably far behind, the fans dont donate.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 9:51 am to tigerfoot
quote:
the argument was the two Miss schools benefitted from players being overlooked in Miss and being ranked as 3s, when they could be better.
This is accurate. But no one is saying that ALL 3-stars are overlooked. There's not enough to build a championship program on, but a good college scouting program should be able to identify 10 or so 3-stars per year that are winning players.
quote:
I pointed out that neither is winning championships.
Neither is Texas A&M and a lot of other programs that recruit extremely well. Championships are difficult.
quote:
Then explain how those with higher recruiting rankings have decades of national success to point to versus those outside of the top 5 or so.
Recruiting rankings are just one data point in a complicated formula for winning championships. There is coaching, scouting, development, attrition, etc.
Many program have won national championships with recruiting rankings outside of the top 5. LSU and Clemson are recent examples.
You can recognize that recruiting rankings are a good process that has merit, without having a religious fervor towards them that gives them an authority that is undeserved, and definitely unearned.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 10:00 am to tigerfoot
You seem like a guy who reads too many message boards and has no idea what is really going on.
You have zero idea what players are getting paid. All of the data that is public is a complete joke and based on self-reporting and quizzing players during interviews. The On3 NIL valuation is comical.
Schools or collectives are not releasing this information.
LSU didn't lose a single good player to transfer last year due to NIL, and I doubt they will this year. Power 5 players are transferring due to playing time and coaching changes, with few exceptions. The ones that do transfer for NIL are transferring UP to bigger programs.
You have zero idea what players are getting paid. All of the data that is public is a complete joke and based on self-reporting and quizzing players during interviews. The On3 NIL valuation is comical.
Schools or collectives are not releasing this information.
LSU didn't lose a single good player to transfer last year due to NIL, and I doubt they will this year. Power 5 players are transferring due to playing time and coaching changes, with few exceptions. The ones that do transfer for NIL are transferring UP to bigger programs.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 10:00 am to tigerfoot
quote:
the argument was the two Miss schools benefitted from players being overlooked in Miss and being ranked as 3s, when they could be better.
That’s really not the substance of the argument at all. That was a sidebar.
But there’s more to it than, meh, no championships. If there was only Ole Miss or only Mississippi State, that one school would be a lot more successful. That talent pool is rich but small and they split it at best (with Alabama and LSU and others in the mix).
What I was actually arguing was that there is a totally understandable geographical bias in recruiting service rankings.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 10:00 am to Smokin Joe Dumas
quote:
PRIMARY PLAN: Two highly regarded and rated players (high 4* top 100 or so), with as good or better programs offering them than other prospects, with film, and evaluated in camp settings decomitted.
BACK-UP PLAN The two that replaced them had gone to camps and didn’t get commitable offers. And, even though those 3* kids had good offers, some of those offers may not have been commitable. That tells you something.
This is called BACK-UP plan recruiting and unfortunately is necessary at times...
Posted on 11/15/23 at 10:27 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:OK, I never made an argument. This is about recruiting.
LSU didn't lose a single good player to transfer last year due to NIL,
Going back 10 years, you have UGA, Bama, LSU, Clemson, OSU winning championships. They have one thing in common, being in the top 5 in recruiting rankings in the years prior to their winning. They have diff staffs, diff methods, diff philosophies, yet have all won championships.
quote:I am a member of one. This one.
You seem like a guy who reads too many message boards and has no idea what is really going on.
quote:And of course you do.
You have zero idea what players are getting paid
The schools with more money to spend on NIL are winning the recruiting wars.
Posted on 11/15/23 at 10:45 am to tigerfoot
quote:
The schools with more money to spend on NIL are winning the recruiting wars.
And were winning the recruiting wars before NIL. Clemson and LSU did not average top 5 recruiting rankings leading up to their championships.
On Rivals, from 2015-19 LSU averaged averaged 7.6 and Clemson averaged 9.8.
I see little difference in the top 10 recruiting rankings. Probably the top 1 or 2 classes stand a bit apart, but after that there isn't much separation. It becomes about attrition, development and coaching.
Georgia and Alabama have both recruited great. But they also have great coaching and development, a winning culture and very little attrition. These are all as important as recruiting. There are plenty of programs that recruit well, but don't have these other elements.
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