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Message
re: Moussa Cisse will commit Wednesday
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:16 am to TigerLaw40
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:16 am to TigerLaw40
quote:
It sucks, no doubt about it; especially when it seemed he was right in our grasp just a month ago. But if Wade can get Anei to transfer here, then I think we are okay and every bit as good if we had Cisse.
That's a big "if".
That aside. There is a big time problem somewhere if we have (1) a TV personality DIRECTLY interjecting himself in the recruitment of a player with a blatant goal of hurting a coach's/schools chances of getting a player, and (2) allegedly basing those efforts off the information provided by a former coach. That's another level of dirty recruiting
One thing I think is starting to become clear is that there are a lot of people in the world of CBB who dislike Wade. More than than, I have heard some suggestions there there are people INSIDE LSU athletics who aren't too fond of Wade either. However, the fact that he (1) is putting LSU (on the court ) in a position they haven't been in quite some time, and (2) is WELL liked by much of the fanbase is forcing them to suppress much of their dislike. They are smart enough to know the alternative may be going back to a nearly 3 decade wandering wasteland of mediocrity and a 2/3rds empty PMAC.
From his very first press conference I thought Wade reminded me of Saban. Incredibly detailed oriented, intensely driven, manically obsessive about winning and willing to do whatever he has to do (even if that means pissing off high level people) to accomplish that goal. Saban is and has always been a pain in the arse to deal with and not someone who is all that well liked. Even internally. He NEVER cared. Winning was all that mattered and his success has allowed him to do whatever the hell he wants. Now, Wade hasn't accomplished anything close to Saban's success. But relative to the last 30 years of LSU basketball, he's on a much sharper trajectory to sustainable big time success than ANY of the 3 HC's who proceeded him.
2
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:35 am to Alt26
quote:
More than than, I have heard some suggestions there there are people INSIDE LSU athletics who aren't too fond of Wade either. However, the fact that he (1) is putting LSU (on the court ) in a position they haven't been in quite some time, and (2) is WELL liked by much of the fanbase is forcing them to suppress much of their dislike.
This part scares me and reminds me a lot of what we heard during Miles' tenure here. With all of Miles' shortcomings, he was an overall very successful coach who was well-liked by the fan base and the entire college football world. But there were a lot of rumblings that he didn't get along with people inside the athletic department despite his success.
There are some egos in our athletic department (of course Les and Will do too) and thankfully we got rid of one those in Alleva. Being successful in a big time athletic program is hard enough as a coach in good environment. It becomes infinitely more difficult when all of the pieces are pulling different directions. Orgeron was able to get everyone on the same page, or at least appears to. It's been a beautiful thing.
We've been "lucky" with Wade's hurt reputation to buy us some more time to correct the ship and get him the support he needs inside the program. Woodward needs to make that happen as soon as possible.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 11:39 am to kadillak
Shaq has been an incredible ambassador for LSU, and he and Dale are close. It's going to be difficult for LSU to distance itself from Dale while keeping Shaq involved.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:00 pm to Alt26
quote:
That's a big "if".
Obviously. I never said it was a little "if".
quote:
From his very first press conference I thought Wade reminded me of Saban. Incredibly detailed oriented, intensely driven, manically obsessive about winning and willing to do whatever he has to do (even if that means pissing off high level people) to accomplish that goal. Saban is and has always been a pain in the arse to deal with and not someone who is all that well liked. Even internally. He NEVER cared. Winning was all that mattered and his success has allowed him to do whatever the hell he wants. Now, Wade hasn't accomplished anything close to Saban's success. But relative to the last 30 years of LSU basketball, he's on a much sharper trajectory to sustainable big time success than ANY of the 3 HC's who proceeded him.
I agree that the way Wade seems to go about handling his business and managing the program has similarities to Saban, which is a good thing. Never really got the Saban vibe personality wise though. So the things that have been discussed and rumored about him not being well liked in the profession and even in the LSU AD is a little surprising.
That said, I agree with you that it doesn't necessarily bother me one bit as a fan as Wade has seemed to win over the most important aspect, the fan base and supporters. And as long as he continues to perform and move the program in a direction of accomplishment, then I'm all for it and the egos around LSU need to get over themselves or get out the damn way. Most of the ones that don't like him are likely the people that have never been pushed hard before to do their job better or had an expectation of high performance. I can see Wade as being one that expects that of everyone that comes into contact with the basketball program. And employees like that in any organization are always the cancerous ones that hate the one doing the pushing.
Hopefully Woodward can see that it is better to have a coach that performs and has high expectations more than one that is necessarily liked by his co-workers.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:30 pm to ColeLSU
If Cisse chooses Memphis and this LSU program is NOT put on probation like Vitale has been screaming then the University should sue the hell out of Vitale for using his notoriety to influence and lie to steer away a recruit who initially was to choose LSU. If that can be proven.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:50 pm to catnip
quote:
Cisse chooses Memphis and this LSU program is NOT put on probation like Vitale has been screaming then the University should sue the hell out of Vitale for using his notoriety to influence and lie to steer away a recruit who initially was to choose LSU. If that can be proven.
I still don’t understand why all this talk of LSU probation would scare Cisse to Memphis. Memphis is much closer to having major sanctions than LSU and almost certainly will get punished far worse (if LSU is even punished at all).
James Wiseman ineligibility now an NCAA infractions case for Memphis that will go to new panel
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 1:27 pm to LSU Patrick
I grew up with Dale and LSU basketball, so it pains me to even think/type this. However, there's a decent chance father time will take care of Dale's Benedict Arnold arse before long.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 3:55 pm to tigahlovah
When Saban left for Miami he suggested Houston fricking Nut as his replacement it's typical, not many successful coaches want to leave a program they succeeded at and have another coach follow them and do better.
Hence Dale Brown pushed for Jones nothing against Johnny but it didn't work out. Granted Jones did not replace Brown but was strongly suggested by Dale to be the next head coach. In comes Da Gangster and all he does is start to wreck shite. Daddy Dale might not like seeing Wade's success.
it's typical, not many successful coaches want to leave a program they succeeded at and have another coach follow them and do better. Hence Dale Brown pushed for Jones nothing against Johnny but it didn't work out. Granted Jones did not replace Brown but was strongly suggested by Dale to be the next head coach. In comes Da Gangster and all he does is start to wreck shite. Daddy Dale might not like seeing Wade's success.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 4:43 pm to 00 Tech Grad
quote:
I still don’t understand why all this talk of LSU probation would scare Cisse to Memphis. Memphis is much closer to having major sanctions than LSU and almost certainly will get punished far worse (if LSU is even punished at all). James Wiseman ineligibility now an NCAA infractions case for Memphis that will go to new panel
I didn't appreciate the details of the James Wiseman case. So, the guy who knew he was going to be named head coach pays the mother of the prized recruit $11,500 (and it was probably more) and NCAA makes them pay an equivalent amount of the money (likely only part of what she received) to charity, declares the player ineligible for 7 games and then he's cleared? Maybe that's why Cisse is going to Memphis. It's a school where the HC can be found guilty of directly paying players and all the beneficiary recruit is required to do is pay back a portion of the money, sit 7 games and then be cleared.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 4:45 pm to 00 Tech Grad
quote:
Bo Bahnsen
why has he not been reassigned somewhere. Dude is a cancer to LSU sports. Thinks his job is about him.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 5:03 pm to catnip
quote:
If Cisse chooses Memphis and this LSU program is NOT put on probation like Vitale has been screaming then the University should sue the hell out of Vitale for using his notoriety to influence and lie to steer away a recruit who initially was to choose LSU. If that can be proven.
Regardless of where he goes Cisse will be a one-and-done. Even if LSU receives a NOA, it is highly unlikely (if violations are proven) the NCAA would issue sanctions before the end of the upcoming season. For example. It took 7 months from the time Oklahoma St. received a NOA to the time they were sanctioned (last month). LSU hasn't even received a NOA yet and OSU had an assistant coach plead guilty in the DOJ case. Throw in the fact that the country has essentially been on pause since March and it seems HIGHLY unlikely any NCAA issues would effect Cisse whatsoever.
Unfortunately, it would probably be difficult to prove Vitale's tweets were the reason Cisse didn't go to LSU. Also, if litigation were instituted then discovery would have to take place and a LOT of shady stuff (which there almost always is when it comes to top basketball prospects) would be subject to disclosure. Not just for LSU, but many schools. This kid is a native of Africa who was brought over to the US to be groomed to be a pro basketball player. There are God knows how many "handlers" involved in his basketball career thus far. No schools/coaches really want the underbelly of that recruitment being exposed.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 5:22 pm to Manswers
quote:
So, the guy who knew he was going to be named head coach pays the mother of the prized recruit $11,500 (and it was probably more) and NCAA makes them pay an equivalent amount of the money (likely only part of what she received) to charity, declares the player ineligible for 7 games and then he's cleared? Maybe that's why Cisse is going to Memphis. It's a school where the HC can be found guilty of directly paying players and all the beneficiary recruit is required to do is pay back a portion of the money, sit 7 games and then be cleared.
Maybe not as big a deal for the player, but This article makes it very clear Memphis might get the worst sanctions in NCAA MBB history, a la SMU football (with no right to appeal):
Doyel: NCAA's new independent infractions structure is complicated and terrifying
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 5:32 pm to elcid
If you’re Will Wade, why would you stay at LSU after this repeated treatment?
Posted on 7/14/20 at 6:18 pm to elcid
Before you rush to judgement on Dale Brown he wants to know, if you have ever masterbated?
Posted on 7/14/20 at 6:32 pm to Manswers
quote:
I didn't appreciate the details of the James Wiseman case. So, the guy who knew he was going to be named head coach pays the mother of the prized recruit $11,500 (and it was probably more) and NCAA makes them pay an equivalent amount of the money (likely only part of what she received) to charity, declares the player ineligible for 7 games and then he's cleared?
As I understand it, the transaction and everything happened well before Memphis even had a job opening, let alone Penny knowing he'd be the coach by the time Wiseman was ready for college.
Penny was running a very successful AAU program at the time and I would imagine he was recruiting Wiseman to the area for that and the school he played at. It's also possible that Penny, as an alum and booster of the school, intended on directing Wiseman to Memphis anyway even if someone else were the coach there.
quote:
Maybe that's why Cisse is going to Memphis. It's a school where the HC can be found guilty of directly paying players and all the beneficiary recruit is required to do is pay back a portion of the money, sit 7 games and then be cleared.
Well, I think the initial investigation was that they found that Penny was acting in the capacity of a booster of Memphis when it happened. And from a recent article I just read, the NCAA likely would have only given him a 1 game suspension. However, they were pissed b/c Memphis took a tactic that most schools don't and continued to play Wiseman at the beginning of the season even though the NCAA "strongly advised" against him playing while they did their preliminary investigation. Think Javonte Smart. LSU sat him for a game while the NCAA did their preliminary investigation, then they reinstated him to play after the NCAA "cleared" him to play. But since Memphis ignored them for a couple of games and played him anyway, the NCAA gave him the max suspension for the offense, which was playing an ineligible player, of 12 games.
It doesn't mean that the NCAA can't come back after their bigger investigation and the panel reviews everything and decide to impose bigger sanctions on the program for what happened, including having them forfeit wins.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 6:36 pm to 00 Tech Grad
quote:
Maybe not as big a deal for the player, but This article makes it very clear Memphis might get the worst sanctions in NCAA MBB history, a la SMU football (with no right to appeal):
Doyel: NCAA's new independent infractions structure is complicated and terrifying
Yep, this is the same article I read on it too.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 8:04 pm to TigerLaw40
So take this for what it’s worth; but I was listening to Ott on the way home in his new show. He did a whole segment on Cisse and LSU basketball. Here is the gist of some of what he said:
- said Cisse had silently committed to LSU 2 or 3 times; but that he and his handlers have notified Wade that he is committing to Memphis.
- said Cisse and his handlers/contacts told LSU specifically that it was b/c of Vitale’s tweets and the concern that created are the reason why he changed his mind. (This is the part that I kind of question some. Just can’t see them saying that so bluntly).
- said that compliance and some others inside the AD continue to be a thorn in the side of Wade and program, and that they are still operating under their own agendas. Calls out Woodward as not doing as much about this issue as he thought he would when first hired.
- a guest host (I think it was ? Hayes - older guy that’s a big basketball guy) said he still believes Woodward will “drain the swamp” (his words, not mine); but that He can’t do it as quickly as we hoped and has to be surgical and patient. Said he believes it will happen though and that those people will go kicking and screaming when he does.
- Ott said he still believes in Wade and continues to be amazed by the job he has done with one hand still tied behind his back.
It’s a good segment to listen to. Was in his 2nd hour (7:00 hour) of the show. I’d provide link to the podcast version; but it’s not up yet.
- said Cisse had silently committed to LSU 2 or 3 times; but that he and his handlers have notified Wade that he is committing to Memphis.
- said Cisse and his handlers/contacts told LSU specifically that it was b/c of Vitale’s tweets and the concern that created are the reason why he changed his mind. (This is the part that I kind of question some. Just can’t see them saying that so bluntly).
- said that compliance and some others inside the AD continue to be a thorn in the side of Wade and program, and that they are still operating under their own agendas. Calls out Woodward as not doing as much about this issue as he thought he would when first hired.
- a guest host (I think it was ? Hayes - older guy that’s a big basketball guy) said he still believes Woodward will “drain the swamp” (his words, not mine); but that He can’t do it as quickly as we hoped and has to be surgical and patient. Said he believes it will happen though and that those people will go kicking and screaming when he does.
- Ott said he still believes in Wade and continues to be amazed by the job he has done with one hand still tied behind his back.
It’s a good segment to listen to. Was in his 2nd hour (7:00 hour) of the show. I’d provide link to the podcast version; but it’s not up yet.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 8:17 pm to TigerLaw40
quote:
- a guest host (I think it was ? Hayes - older guy that’s a big basketball guy) said he still believes Woodward will “drain the swamp” (his words, not mine); but that He can’t do it as quickly as we hoped and has to be surgical and patient. Said he believes it will happen though and that those people will go kicking and screaming when he does.
All good information. Not sure what the above is in reference to, who will fall? Is Wade gone and/or Dale exposed or does it mean that Wade will be vindicated. Who will be “drained”
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 8:18 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 8:26 pm to elcid
Will Cisse get to transfer when Memphis gets hammered by NCAA sanctions. Im betting that this young man has better guidance and chooses somewhere other than Memphis.
This post was edited on 7/14/20 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 7/14/20 at 8:46 pm to ulmtiger
How would he be scared by lsu s sanctions over Memphis's sanctions, which have already happened
That part makes no sense and I'm not buying it
That part makes no sense and I'm not buying it
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