re: Can Someone Explain…Re: Herring

Posted by Tigerfan14

Member since Jun 2014

1438 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 9:45 am to subidc

quote:
Not yet but let’s see if it’s a pattern. If we have pitchers leaving every year then the coach could be the problem.

Right…. And to LE’s point, this guy was a very good player who got better this season. Not typically the profile of a guy who dislikes the coach. There has to be a pretty big personality clash for you to excel but still dislike your instructor.

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 9:56 am to AD23

I usually do not react to “insider” information much, but certainly will file it away and monitor. As much shite as they get & (i personally think Naptime sucks balls) they’ve said some things that have held pretty true.

Fans want to totally disregard the negative but sometimes you just have to read the tea leaves & make your own assumptions

Posted by AlwysATgr

Member since Apr 2008

19035 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 9:56 am to Lester Earl

quote:
your best pitcher & team MVP

Who is this referring to? Jump? Herring? White?

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 9:57 am to AlwysATgr

Herring was the team’s best pitcher & MVP.

Posted by thunderbird1100

GSU Eagles fan

Member since Oct 2007

70790 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:02 am to Lester Earl

quote:
Herring was the team’s best pitcher & MVP.

I honestly dont know how you could have him ahead of Holman or even Jump since they are starters and pitched extremely well.

Yes Herring obviously had some great numbers but it's always easier to pitch in 2-3ish inning outings than 4-6ish inning outings.

Herring pitched starter equivalent innings in only like 4 outings. All between 4.1-6.1 IP (only 1 over 5.0 IP). Holman and Jump pitched at least a dozen or more of those types of outings.

This post was edited on 7/16/24 at 10:05 am

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:03 am to BayTiger13

quote:
I think the likely price is 500-600K. Do I think he can better his stock if he comes back, yes.

I’m not saying he won’t but from the Yankees eyes, they don’t really have reason to pay him a ton overslot. If Joe Blow on Tigerdroppings knows he is signable, so do the Yankees.

He had a great year, and definitely has 1 great pitch.

However, from a professional perspective, His body nor age is all that projectible. Very confidently can say he carries a bullpen arm projection. I just don’t see where the perceived extra value comes in, in terms of a huge over slot deal. He was drafted about where everyone thought he’d be, and was able all accounts, very signable.

Posted by Chalkywhite84

New orleans

Member since Dec 2016

31275 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:06 am to Lester Earl

quote:
The Herring video should make sense because the pitchers don’t trust him. Some will go the draft, some will transfer but very few, if any want to work with him again....

We will lose more than we should. We were already losing a lot! Moffit is a prime example……would say Herring is almost for sure gone also. It’s not because they don’t love LSU! ..

What wad the herring video?

This was about the pitchers not trusting yeskie?

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:08 am to thunderbird1100

Herring saved Johnson’s arse all year. He was the only reliable bullpen arm. He lengthened games & flat out stopped teams in their tracks in leverage situations all season. He was especially masterful in SEC play. His body of work was worth a bunch of wins.

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:11 am to Chalkywhite84

Chalky, when he was caught on the mound yelling into his glove about throwing sliders/pitch calling. I forget the game

Posted by thunderbird1100

GSU Eagles fan

Member since Oct 2007

70790 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:15 am to Lester Earl

quote:
Herring saved Johnson’s arse all year. He was the only reliable bullpen arm. He lengthened games & flat out stopped teams in their tracks in leverage situations all season. He was especially masterful in SEC play. His body of work was worth a bunch of wins.

MVP is one thing, but best pitcher he was most definitely not. Pretty easily was Holman who was a workhorse all year for us going 4.1IP in literally every start and was hit much less than Herring even was (.174 vs. .215 BAA).

To be able to go 5-7 innings very consistently while guys are hitting .174 against you is pretty damn elite. He went through every single lineup he faced this year 2 times completely. He even went through the lineup 3 times completely a few times. He never was in a game where someone didn't see him at least 3 times this year. Herring was not better than that.

This post was edited on 7/16/24 at 10:20 am

Posted by lsutiger2

Baton Rouge

Member since Oct 2008

7017 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:16 am to Lester Earl

Maybe Herring didnt like Yeskie and maybe he did. Maybe a lot of pitchers who already left its for the same reason. But one comfort in having a really good head coach is whatever the problem is. He will figure it out and make the necessary changes.

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:19 am to thunderbird1100

quote:
t and was hit much less than Herring even was (.174 vs. .215 BAA).

Herring had a 1.14 ERA (1.01Whip) in SEC games.

Holman had a 3.93 era (1.23 Whip) in sec games.

You are free to your opinion. I respect what Holman did. Herring was the teams best pitcher, start to finish.

3 ...

Posted by BayTiger13

Louisiana

Member since Feb 2022

2413 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:21 am to Lester Earl

Some of your points is why I made my last comment after originally thinking double his signing bonus. I think you are onto something with your points but I also have to believe even though he was signable he would still have a decent value for himself. I guess to all your points it could be a similar deal to Garrett Edwards last season. Edwards is more projectible but with the injury. Herring not quite as projectable but has a lot of production to back up wanting a certain value.

Posted by Tigah14

Member since Jun 2024

306 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:25 am to Lester Earl

quote:
ERA

I agree with you, somewhat, but ERA is the most useless stat in the world when it comes to comparing a reliever to a starter.

Edit - Jump was my pitching MVP

This post was edited on 7/16/24 at 10:32 am

Posted by thunderbird1100

GSU Eagles fan

Member since Oct 2007

70790 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:27 am to Lester Earl

Again Holman threw WAY more innings still than Herring did, cant really directly compare, and ERA is still very dependent as well on guys who relieve you at times which always happened with Holman in every game and didnt happen nearly as much with Herring who finished a lot of his games. Completely different scenarios as well to have at least 1 guy in a lineup see you 3x in literally every game vs. someone else who maybe had a few guys saw Herring 2x in most of his games.

Herring was absolutely awesome no doubt but he wasnt the best pitcher on the team last season.

If Herring was the best pitcher then he would be starting on Friday or Saturday easily and drafted higher than the 6th round, no question. Jay isnt a dummy.

This post was edited on 7/16/24 at 10:29 am

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:36 am to Tigah14

quote:
but ERA is the most useless stat in the world when it comes to comparing a reliever to a starter

It definitely is not, especially if you are talking about a guy that regularly pitches multiple innings, and not just to 3 batters.

Furthermore, no starter or reliever is perfect in the SEC. But Herring came pretty damn close to an immaculate season.

Holman had some rough patches but all in all had a very good season. What Herring did was different. Pull up the SEC only stat page (league-wide, not just LSU only) and look at some of his superlatives.

This post was edited on 7/16/24 at 10:37 am

Posted by jembeurt

Raceland

Member since Apr 2008

8841 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:40 am to Lester Earl

quote:
Holman had a 3.93 era (1.23 Whip) in sec games.

Is anyone able to get Holman’s numbers the first time through the order of the lineup? That should be a better comparison to Herring’s numbers, correct?

Posted by Lester Earl

3rd Ward

Member since Nov 2003

284925 posts

Posted on 7/16/24 at 10:43 am to thunderbird1100

quote:
If Herring was the best pitcher then he would be starting on Friday or Saturday easily and drafted higher than the 6th round, no question. Jay isnt a dummy.

If he had traditional bullpen usage, I wouldn’t be making this argument. You also do not have to explain to me about sample size, as if I do not understand that lol.

You couple the leverage situations he pitched in on top of throwing multiple innings at a time almost every outing, and this isn’t your run of the mill bullpen circumstances that lead to safe numbers.

Also, I don’t even know why I have to say this but I guess it needs saying. Where he was drafted has nothing to do with his standing as a pitcher at lsu last year. It just means lsu had better pitching prospects. Which is why Thatcher Hurd was selected ahead of him despite a terrible season on the mound.