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re: New AC running much longer than old one

Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:37 am to
Posted by PenguinPubes
Frozen Tundra
Member since Jan 2018
11476 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:37 am to
quote:

Old unit ran for a max of 10 hours on 100° days set at 72° during the day


There is absolutely no way that is true…
Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
45601 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 8:41 am to
I promise you it is.
Posted by TheBoo
South to Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
5135 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:31 am to
quote:

I set it on 75 during the day but by the time I posted about it being 69° going into the air handler, it was evening and the house had cooled a bit.

Scheduling your unit to pull the temp down from 75 to 69 at the highest point of heat impact in the afternoon / evening is a tall order. If everything in your house gets to 75 all day, then everything is putting off 75 degree heat when you trying to cool down to 69. In my experience (4 ton 14 seer) pulling down from 75 is much different than pulling down from 72.

I don't put my "not home" temperature higher than 73 for this reason.

Just a thought.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 9:32 am
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5610 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:42 am to
quote:

So what could the problem be to cause this?

Well with a low temp split (say 14 F), with temps measured inside the return & supply plenums, normally it would be a refrigerant issue - undercharged or overcharged - but the tech is saying that’s OK?

A certain amount of duct leakage is acceptable - 3% would be - but is this a wild arse guess on his part as there a procedure for measuring duct leakage which involves the use of the same equipment as a blower door test (house air leakage test), covering the supply registers & pressurizing the ducts, and leakage is calculated, and problem areas indentified with smoke pen or thermal imager. I had it done on my ducts a couple years prior to my changeout. And leakage is not just checked on the supply side - it needs to be checked on the return side - if hot air from the attic is being pulled into the return plenum side b/c of leak there then that would cause comfort - run time issues as well.

How is the humidity in the house with the new system? Typically the blower speed in the furnace (do you have a gas furnace?) comes set at a factory default highest speed of 400 cfm per ton. It’s better to have the blower set at slightly lower speed in our hot, humid environment, 350 cfm per ton, so return air from inside the house stays in contact with the cold evap coil longer, increasing the temperature split and lowering humidity. Often blower speed is not changed by the techs from the factory default highest blower speed with a new install.

Lastly, is this fairly large HVAC company? If so, you can request a senior tech to come out to discuss your concerns, and check things. Most the young guys do the installs and senior techs handle problem issues-repairs, and though the young guys may be competent, they aren’t as experienced in tweaking systems, finding issues, etc as the old techs.

I had a change out last year, same size system (4 tons, single stage, R-22 to R-410A, SEER 12 to SEER2 15). I’m getting as good or better comfort than the old system. I can’t comment on my utility bills - I’m on levelized billing - but they not higher than before the changeout. I did have a second return duct installed on the opposite side of the house, as my original return plenum was a 1/3 undersized, and that has definitely improved comfort issues on the other side of the house where the new return plenum was added.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 10:24 am
Posted by poochie
Houma, la
Member since Apr 2007
6765 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:48 am to
i didn't even think they still sold something as inefficient as a 14 seer.
Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
45601 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:50 am to
quote:

It’s better to have the blower set at slightly lower speed in our hot, humid environment, 350 cfm per ton, so return air from inside the house stays in contact with the cold evap coil longer, increasing the temperature split and lowering humidity.

Is that something I can do myself or do I need a tech for it? It's a small hvac company that did the work so they don't have any senior or non-senior techs - just the owner and two guys who work for him. Came recommended by my dad who has used this company for years with no issues. I'm pissed and feel like he fricked me sideways somehow.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
20115 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:56 am to
quote:


There is absolutely no way that is true…


HVAc industry gets the majority of its revenue from uneducated owners by selling them oversized units. It is crazy.
Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
45601 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:57 am to
quote:

HVAc industry gets the majority of its revenue from uneducated owners by selling them oversized units. It is crazy.

I have the same sized unit as before and didn't have this issue before.
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5610 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 10:01 am to
quote:

Is that something I can do myself or do I need a tech for it? It's a small hvac company that did the work so they don't have any senior or non-senior techs - just the owner and two guys who work for him

It’s something you could typically do yourself. It would most likely be a switch on the control board in the furnace that would allow you adjust blower speed, it might have 4 settings - high, medium-high, medium-low, low for a 4 or 5 ton unit. In heat mode, the blower speed is usually set one speed lower than in cool mode. Details on doing this might be inside the manual of the furnace that came with the new equipment - hopefully they gave you that.
Posted by jmon
Loisiana
Member since Oct 2010
9286 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:39 am to
Does your new unit have a humidity setting? If so, it could be running longer to reduce humidity in your home. Adjust the humidity setting up and that will allow for a shorter run time.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
20115 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

I have the same sized unit as before and didn't have this issue before.


That comment wasn't about your new one. Both old and new were severely oversized IF your claim was indeed true. 50% duty cycle/loading in 100F heat is asinine.
Posted by RaginCajunz
Member since Mar 2009
6606 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

I’m not, but just estimating it’s on for 10-15 minutes then off for 10-15 minutes.



This seems to be the most telling part to me. 15 on / 15 off / 15 on / 15 off seems crazy short. Especially the ON part in our heat. Mine will cycle off sometimes for 15-20 minutes in the hotest part of the evening, but it's not cycling so quickly.
Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
45601 posts
Posted on 7/10/24 at 9:21 pm to
I got up there this evening and turns out there were significantly more air leaks than I realized. No way in hell I only had 3% air leaks - that was bullshite. I sealed them all off with reflective tape and then painted duct sealant over all the areas. I also replaced the thermostat. Hopefully this helps. I’ll see how long it runs overnight and compare.
Posted by RaginRampage
Detroit Lions Fan
Member since Feb 2018
221 posts
Posted on 7/11/24 at 8:36 am to
How did you go about identifying the leaks? Just feeling for cold air along the ducts, or did you used a thermal camera? Asking because I'm thinking about doing the same thing.
Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
45601 posts
Posted on 7/11/24 at 8:39 am to
I just felt with my hand. It was easy to do since my attic was 273 degrees
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
40278 posts
Posted on 7/11/24 at 9:07 am to
If the RA temp I’d 69 you have the t stat set on what?

Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
45601 posts
Posted on 7/11/24 at 9:13 am to
If it's set at 69 then it will run until it's 69 then stop for 8-15 minutes. Then runs again for 15 minutes even though the temp is still 69 and will stop for 15 minutes. The cycle repeats itself continuously even with the temp staying at 69 degrees. Of course, it stays at 69 because it's trying to KEEP it there but why won't it come on only if the temp rises to 70 instead? My only option is to turn the entire unit off once my indoor temp reaches the desired temp and then turn it back on once it rises again. That's going to be exhausting and probably not good for the unit. My guy is coming back out tomorrow to look at it and I'm not letting him leave until the problem is identified. This is ridiculous and unacceptable to me.
Posted by White Bear
Yonnygo
Member since Jul 2014
16367 posts
Posted on 7/11/24 at 9:39 am to
You might be able to set a higher differential in your thermostat?
Posted by jordan21210
Member since Apr 2009
13929 posts
Posted on 7/11/24 at 9:46 am to
What thermostat are you using? My Sensi Touch had a setting where I can adjust cycle times. Mine would do the same as yours, constantly kicking on and off. I changed the cycle settings and it seems to have gotten better.
Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
45601 posts
Posted on 7/11/24 at 10:12 am to
I'm using a Sensi as well. I did change the cycle time to "slow" but that only improved it from 8 minutes on and off to 15 minutes on and off. Again, this happens even when the indoor temp is at the set temp. It doesn't wait for the temp to rise to come back on.
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