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lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

Scientific discussion on supplements
So was doing a bunch of research on Berberine Today and figured I would start a thread where we could post studies and insight that are scientifically backed on certain supplements. Please post studies and commentary on supplements.


Berberine
LINK
The link will tell you all about berberine.

Two studies on Berberine
LINK
LINK

Stolen from reddit





Ok so what is the above saying???

Berberine decreases fasting glucose, post meal glucose, plasma triglycerides, total cholesterol and overall systematic inflammation. We now have two studies confirming the same things which validates the early studies on Berberine as a treatment for diabetes.

The participants were given 360mg split into 3 daily doses. It took a month of consistent dosing to show effects and make a large impact on the health markers.

The second study compared the results also to metformin. Both were equally as effective at lowering resting and post meal glucose, but metformin did not show the ability to to lower triglycerides and overall cholesterol levels.

What does this mean for average person here, on TD?

Berberine shows traits that will improve your health and extend your life. It could also, probable as there is not a study on this yet that I know of, activate glut4 allowing a nutrition partitioning effect allowing a greater number of calories, specifically carbs to be able to be digested and used as fuel/muscle instead of being stored as bodyfat.

Very interesting for sure and I will continue to post and research on it.

You can get the powder here but I will warn it is not the best tasting. Capsules are available also.

For fatloss you can use it two ways

1. To get into ketosis quicker by taking with no carbs at a dose of 250-500mg 2-3 times daily with your meals.

2. Through nutrition partitioning effects by taking with meals containing carbs at 250-750mg per.


For health:
Can be take daily with meals. Doses as low as 100mg taken 3 times daily has shown to have the effects described in the studies linked.


For muscle building:
Use with your pre workout meal containing carbs, Peri/post workout with carbs to increase nutrition partitioning effects.

Can also be used if doing carb backloading by using a large dose before your nightly carbs.
This post was edited on 7/3 at 2:22 pm


Hu_Flung_Pu
USA Fan
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
18392 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
Nice thread topic. Creatine and caffeine should be next.


Hu_Flung_Pu
USA Fan
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
18392 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
quote:

lower triglycerides 


Isn't that related to the diet heavier than genetics?

I know my triglycerides can shoot up from having a huge carb load.

So changing the diet to counteract diabetic issues would lower triglycerides and help cholesterol anyway.
This post was edited on 7/3 at 12:09 pm


DeafJam73
USA Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
13367 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
What’s really to discuss? Caffeine and creatine are known to work.


lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
quote:

Isn't that related to the diet heavier than genetics?

I know my triglycerides can shoot up from having a huge carb load.

So changing the diet to counteract diabetic issues would lower triglycerides and help cholesterol anyway.


Yes more to do with diet. Berberine has shown the ability to lower it without a change in diet by repartitioning carbs. One of the advantages it holds over metformin.

I am going to do NA-R-ALA first then will get to caffeine. Creatine, somebody else can do, tons of studies on it and it's effectiveness, should be easy.


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Rep520
Arizona Fan
Member since Mar 2018
5220 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
quote:

What’s really to discuss? Caffeine and creatine are known to work.


Yeah, other than what they do, there isn't a ton to either creatine of caffeine. They work.

The above is interesting. I've never heard of it. That would be my primary interest, under the radar stuff with promising scientific backing.

For 777, if you're not struggling with blood sugar issues, can Berberine be beneficial? I'm in a decent place with my sugar and not close to diabetes, but if there are other benefits...
This post was edited on 7/3 at 12:44 pm


WaydownSouth
LSU Fan
West of the Mississippi
Member since Nov 2018
1563 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
An 80 person study isn’t exactly reliable


Shepherd88
Member since Dec 2013
2610 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
Not to hijack, but what would kinda diet should one look at who has naturally very low blood sugar.

I’m young, healthy, and very active but deal with a border line hypoglycemia from time to time. If I’m active and fasted or if I’m active after a big meal my blood sugar will crash and it’s a weird weird feeling.


lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
Well berberine would be considered a glucose disposal agent with its ability to activate glut4. This allows better nutrition partitioning.

So using with carbs about an hour and a half before the workout and then again peri/post workout with the rest of your daily carbs should help with muscle building while staying lean.

The nutrition partitioning effects should help fatloss too.

Also it does help get into ketosis quicker.


lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
quote:


An 80 person study isn’t exactly reliable



Compared to???? 80 is a huge study compared to most.


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Rep520
Arizona Fan
Member since Mar 2018
5220 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
quote:

So using with carbs about an hour and a half before the workout and then again peri/post workout with the rest of your daily carbs should help with muscle building while staying lean. 


Hmm, both of those would neatly fit my regular workout nutrition schedule.

The ketosis part isn't particularly relevant to my diet, but maybe I'll look into it as it fits with workouts.


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lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
quote:

Not to hijack, but what would kinda diet should one look at who has naturally very low blood sugar.

I’m young, healthy, and very active but deal with a border line hypoglycemia from time to time. If I’m active and fasted or if I’m active after a big meal my blood sugar will crash and it’s a weird weird feeling.



Please start a new thread


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Adam4848
LSU Fan
LA
Member since Apr 2006
12470 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
I would be very interested in the effects of BCAA's. I've used them for years lifting fasted but sometimes wonder the extent of how much it helps muscle retention. They are sometimes marketed to appear as a direct line to muscle growth and not necessarily the way I use them at least.

One study from biomedcentral LINK

quote:

Conclusion

A physiologically-significant increase in the rate of muscle protein synthesis requires adequate availability of all amino acid precursors. The source of EAAs for muscle protein synthesis in the post-absorptive state is the free intracellular pool. Intracellular free EAAs that are available for incorporation into protein are derived from muscle protein breakdown. Under normal conditions about 70% of EAAs released by muscle protein breakdown are reincorporated into muscle protein. The efficiency of reincorporation of EAAs from protein breakdown back into muscle protein can only be increased to a limited extent. For this fundamental reason, a dietary supplement of BCAAs alone cannot support an increased rate of muscle protein synthesis. The availability of the other EAAs will rapidly become rate limiting for accelerated protein synthesis. Consistent with this perspective, the few studies in human subjects have reported decreases, rather than increases, in muscle protein synthesis after intake of BCAAs. We conclude that dietary BCAA supplements alone do not promote muscle anabolism.
This post was edited on 7/3 at 2:17 pm


lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
I will hit on them eventually, but the latest studies Haven shown exactly what the study you posted indicates. EAA are far superior and whole protein is superior to that. Imo using Pepto pro (Hydrolyzed Caseinate) is our best bet when wanting to preserve/build muscle while fasting, but it is expensive and an easy alternative is plain whey protein isolate. I will post studies on this later showing the speeds of absorbtion of each type of protein.


AlxTgr
LSU Fan
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
63407 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
So, does this stuff do anyhting for me other than make my water taste better?



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lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
Next supplement I want to discuss is Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) and specifically the stable form of NA-R-ALA.

What is Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA)?
LINK

ALA has the following benefits supported by the studies I have linked below

Extremely strong anti-oxidant that does not cause the growth of cancer cells once cancer is developed like some anti-oxidants are known to due.

Lowers inflammatory factors

Decreases in fasting and post meal glucose and reduction of A1c

Reduction of diabetic nerve pain

Reduction of blood pressure (mainly through weight loss)

Positively effects memory and is considered anti aging and anti neurodegeneration



LINK

syudiely showing increased fatty acid oxidation and insulin response
Anti- Oxidation studies


So NA-R-ALA is just is the natural occuring form of ALA with a salt added to it for stability. You can buy the powder from geronova or nootropics Depot.


I suggest taking 125mg to 500mg about 30 min before each meal. Similar to berberine. The two can be combined and work great together. Be mindful of lowering blood sugar too much though and start with lower dosing.

For fat loss and muscle building it would be used much the same way as berberine, like I described in the OP.

Both NA-R-ALA and Berberine show great promise as daily supplements to help with anti aging and health.


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WaydownSouth
LSU Fan
West of the Mississippi
Member since Nov 2018
1563 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
quote:

Compared to???? 80 is a huge study compared to most.




Well most good trials have at least 1,000 participants. 80 is an extremely small sample size

ETA: Compared to Metformin
This post was edited on 7/3 at 3:08 pm


Hulkklogan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2010
37158 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
One disclaimer for your analysis on Berberine is that these studies were done on patients with a myriad of health issues and metabolic syndrome. Supplementation of Berberine may (and probably does) achieve the same effects in healthy people but this doesn't prove that.

Otherwise an interesting supplement


lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
I agree, there might be more studies, I will have to research more.


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lsu777
LSU Fan
westlake
Member since Jan 2004
12225 posts

re: Scientific discussion on supplements
Outside of creatine or caffeine, I do not know of another supplement that has even 250 participants in a study.


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