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1
Posted on 7/20/18 at 5:34 am to lsucoonass
I haven't been training very much over the past 2 months. I used to eat whatever I wanted and maintain. Well that obviously caught up with me, so decided to make a change.
Cutting carbs was something I never did, so I tried it. Looking to lose over next two months before starting marathon training. I'm more of a believer in total calories is the only thing that matters, but I have a hard time not overeating when it comes to carbs, so figured cutting them helps cut calories.
To be honest, I had no clue what was low carb compared to full on keto. I must have dipped into keto, because at 4 days in, I felt like crap. Light headed, weak, etc. Feels Like I broke through yesterday. Now that I'm here, figure I'll try it. I'm down about 5 pounds in 6 days.
Cutting carbs was something I never did, so I tried it. Looking to lose over next two months before starting marathon training. I'm more of a believer in total calories is the only thing that matters, but I have a hard time not overeating when it comes to carbs, so figured cutting them helps cut calories.
To be honest, I had no clue what was low carb compared to full on keto. I must have dipped into keto, because at 4 days in, I felt like crap. Light headed, weak, etc. Feels Like I broke through yesterday. Now that I'm here, figure I'll try it. I'm down about 5 pounds in 6 days.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 8:15 am to georgia
I don't want to be rude, but the snake diet is, well, absurd.
Edit: ... to the extent it says to break a fast with fructose. If you just do some time-restricted feeding w a well-formulated nutritional ketogenic diet, then that's a different story. But the idea that coconut water is an optimal or even advisable electrolyte source for this is just dumb.
Edit: ... to the extent it says to break a fast with fructose. If you just do some time-restricted feeding w a well-formulated nutritional ketogenic diet, then that's a different story. But the idea that coconut water is an optimal or even advisable electrolyte source for this is just dumb.
This post was edited on 7/20/18 at 8:23 am
Posted on 7/20/18 at 8:26 am to KG6
You gotta increase the fat intake
Short term is gonna suck but you have a larger energy supply from fats as opposed to glucose/glycogen.
Of course when not used the glucose gets stored as fat. If I’m gonna store fat I might as well eat fat.
Short term is gonna suck but you have a larger energy supply from fats as opposed to glucose/glycogen.
Of course when not used the glucose gets stored as fat. If I’m gonna store fat I might as well eat fat.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 9:36 am to McLemore
quote:
the snake diet is, well, absurd.
I'd call it extreme, and a fringe diet, but you have to understand that the guys in here that are doing that are already decently shredded, so experimenting with their diets a little isn't going to hurt them. They are both very knowledgeable, and you never know until you try how something effects your body. They're also not breaking the fast and then going into a refeed window, the coconut water IS the refeed. If you're that far into a caloric deficit already, and going right back into it in less than 3 hours, then your body has plenty of time to chew up that glucose without storing it.It's like, extreme carb cycling, at least that's how I understand it, but correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm a fat girl, I dont lift as heavy as they do, and I dont have the desire or room to experiment with my body that they do, because I'm on a focused mission for change, so my fasting schedule is a little different than theirs, as I'm sure that yours is different than mine. I think that is what is so awesome about this community though, I've been able to learn a lot from guys who are way ahead of me and still flesh out a plan and routine that works for me. It's the most successful I've ever been, and I feel better every day because of it.
Have an open mind about it, if you have a plan that works for you great, but it doesnt mean its the only plan that is ever going to work for anyone, ya know?
ETA: /EndKnight
This post was edited on 7/20/18 at 10:19 am
Posted on 7/20/18 at 10:32 am to lsu777
quote:I think this is where your thread is incomplete/confusing. Is the entire thrust here weight loss/gain? If so, perhaps you should make that obvious in the thread title. Because your statement is absolutely untrue with regard to overall health.
Research shows that so long as a caloric deficit is achieved and protein is high enough to protect muscle, these two can be eaten by individual preference.
ETA: 777, it seems like you are one of the few posters with enough knowledge/influence on here to actually change the way people think. It's disappointing to me that you funnel everything in threads like this through the prism of weight loss rather than overall health. As you know, I think a much more constructive approach is to eat for health - and if done properly, weight loss will be a happy byproduct.
This post was edited on 7/20/18 at 10:45 am
Posted on 7/20/18 at 10:46 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I think this is where your thread is incomplete/confusing. Is the entire thrust here weight loss/gain? If so, perhaps you should make that obvious in the thread title. Because your statement is absolutely untrue with regard to overall health.
yeah, and it just seems like an unnecessary insulin spike with nothing to quell it--cucumber ain't gonna help (cukes even have very little fiber--just more sugar and starch), if you're fasting. So as you say, it boils down to the purpose of the fast.
Putting straight fructose into the veins to break it defeats (or is at least inimical toward) the best purposes of fasting.
But yeah, if the goal is just counting calories, then whatever. who cares? just all seems assbackwards to me though.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:15 am to Big Scrub TX
I didn't state anything but a fact.
I out further down that keto and Paleo we're better for health.
And let me ask you a question, you insist on keto. What's healtier, a person going on keto for 2-3 weeks and falling off the wagon, losing 20 lbs but gaining 15 back when they fall of.
Or
Somebody going on a flexible dieting approach for 6 months and losing 50lbs?
I can tell you the second approach is going to better overall for their health. For many it's better mentally and their relationship with food.
I have stated I think most people are mental midget and most males are pussies and should just fast for days on end, break the fast staying keto and then fasting again and keep repeating until you reach your goals over 3 weeks or so.
From there a diet break with staying keto for 4 weeks or so then repeating until you are 12% or below.
From there transition to keto and slowly add carb days starting once a week on Saturday with a free 3 hour eating window.
Slowly transitioning to the following
18/6 or 20/4 intermittent fasting-
Protein/fat and green veggies on M/T/T/F/Sunday
On Wednesday and Saturday lower fat and no carbs and protein until at night where you have a 3 hour window to eat whatever you want.
This is until they want to start gaining muscle. From there it's add carbs in the Peri workout window as needed up to 1-1.5xbw to force weight gain. As weight gain stalls add evoo to shakes.
I have stated this 100 times but keto isn't the only way. Just like Paleo isn't either. You don't have to do that away. They are just tools.
Scrub why do you want me to influence people to go keto or keto is the only way when everything shows you are wrong and keto is nothing more than a tool?
Is controlling insulin a way to extend life, studies indicate it is. But so is IF and longer fasting even does it better.
As far as the question, is weight loss the only thing this thread about? Originally it was. It was a support group for those struggling to lose weight for health. I posted plenty of links about keto in the OP. I simply posted the scientific facts in the OP. I see no reason to change it u less you can show me scientific facts to show that what is posted in the OP is wrong.
Something to think about, I personally use keto or at a minimum lower carb and carb cycling. I understand it's not the only way to health and fitness. You should self examine and understand not every one had the will power of someone like you, me, junky or McLemore. They just don't, especially women. Hell sometime I even don't. Just have to be more willing to look at the big picture and understand losing body fat is healthy no matter how it is done.
I out further down that keto and Paleo we're better for health.
And let me ask you a question, you insist on keto. What's healtier, a person going on keto for 2-3 weeks and falling off the wagon, losing 20 lbs but gaining 15 back when they fall of.
Or
Somebody going on a flexible dieting approach for 6 months and losing 50lbs?
I can tell you the second approach is going to better overall for their health. For many it's better mentally and their relationship with food.
I have stated I think most people are mental midget and most males are pussies and should just fast for days on end, break the fast staying keto and then fasting again and keep repeating until you reach your goals over 3 weeks or so.
From there a diet break with staying keto for 4 weeks or so then repeating until you are 12% or below.
From there transition to keto and slowly add carb days starting once a week on Saturday with a free 3 hour eating window.
Slowly transitioning to the following
18/6 or 20/4 intermittent fasting-
Protein/fat and green veggies on M/T/T/F/Sunday
On Wednesday and Saturday lower fat and no carbs and protein until at night where you have a 3 hour window to eat whatever you want.
This is until they want to start gaining muscle. From there it's add carbs in the Peri workout window as needed up to 1-1.5xbw to force weight gain. As weight gain stalls add evoo to shakes.
I have stated this 100 times but keto isn't the only way. Just like Paleo isn't either. You don't have to do that away. They are just tools.
Scrub why do you want me to influence people to go keto or keto is the only way when everything shows you are wrong and keto is nothing more than a tool?
Is controlling insulin a way to extend life, studies indicate it is. But so is IF and longer fasting even does it better.
As far as the question, is weight loss the only thing this thread about? Originally it was. It was a support group for those struggling to lose weight for health. I posted plenty of links about keto in the OP. I simply posted the scientific facts in the OP. I see no reason to change it u less you can show me scientific facts to show that what is posted in the OP is wrong.
Something to think about, I personally use keto or at a minimum lower carb and carb cycling. I understand it's not the only way to health and fitness. You should self examine and understand not every one had the will power of someone like you, me, junky or McLemore. They just don't, especially women. Hell sometime I even don't. Just have to be more willing to look at the big picture and understand losing body fat is healthy no matter how it is done.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:22 am to McLemore
quote:
yeah, and it just seems like an unnecessary insulin spike with nothing to quell it--cucumber ain't gonna help (cukes even have very little fiber--just more sugar and starch), if you're fasting. So as you say, it boils down to the purpose of the fast.
Putting straight fructose into the veins to break it defeats (or is at least inimical toward) the best purposes of fasting.
But yeah, if the goal is just counting calories, then whatever. who cares? just all seems assbackwards to me though.
So there is some confusion here on what the snake diet is. What you are seeing and looking at is one protocol that involves a minimum of 36 hours of dry fasting. The cucumbers and coconut water are there simply to allow people to have something that makes them happy, gives them electrolytes, and keeps calories under 500 for the day. And then they repeat over and over.
But this is just one protocol. The main snake diet is
Fast until you can't anymore, drink the snake juice to help you feel better and extend the fast. It should last minimum of 72 hours. From there you break the fast using keto so you stay in ketosis. Repeat. You never come out of ketoisis until you are below 12% body fat.
If you just can't anymore and are below 18% or so, you can use the coconut and cucumber protocol until you get below 12%.
From there you slowly add more frequent keto meals until you are eating omad and body fat is steady. After 6 weeks on omad you can add another meal EOD monitoring bf to make sure it's steady.
Stay that away until you want to gain weight. I'm the long duration fasting and keto breaks is 100% the fastest and healthiest form of fat loss. But it's hard, peoe are scared of hard.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:22 am to lsu777
quote:If the topic is narrowly just weight loss.
I didn't state anything but a fact.
quote:
And let me ask you a question, you insist on keto
I don't insist on keto.
quote:Red herring. All I'm saying is that you COULD choose to have this thread center around eating health instead of just weight loss. If people understood the extent of their eating habits on their long-term health and longevity, then I don't think the supposed shortfall in will power would be the same.
And let me ask you a question, you insist on keto. What's healtier, a person going on keto for 2-3 weeks and falling off the wagon, losing 20 lbs but gaining 15 back when they fall of.
Or
Somebody going on a flexible dieting approach for 6 months and losing 50lbs?
quote:
Scrub why do you want me to influence people to go keto or keto is the only way when everything shows you are wrong and keto is nothing more than a tool?
I don't. I simply prefer to talk about overall health instead of focusing on weight.
quote:
Something to think about, I personally use keto or at a minimum lower carb and carb cycling. I understand it's not the only way to health and fitness. You should self examine and understand not every one had the will power of someone like you, me, junky or McLemore. They just don't, especially women. Hell sometime I even don't. Just have to be more willing to look at the big picture and understand losing body fat is healthy no matter how it is done.
I think you are overstating the required will power to eat differently.
I think you are taking this too combatively. I meant it as mostly a complement - you have the knowledge and the ability to influence. However, I still think it's disappointing that weight is presented as the focus instead of overall health.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:30 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I think you are overstating the required will power to eat differently
Essentially the entire country being overweight seems to disagree with your statement.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:42 am to Big Scrub TX
Not combative, I promise. Just feels like sometimes I am attacked because I post stuff that is backed by science including studies.
As far as it being a weight loss vs health thread, I posted stuff about intermittent fasting, keto, Paleo, whole 30, etc in the OP. I can continue to build on it and add info as I have time.
And I get the whole health vs weight thing but honestly you know and I know most people just want to look better naked.
And the thread was 100% originally about weight loss for health. I wasn't trying to make it anymore than the original intention it was created on the food drink for. I add other links about health related things but in general I didn't want to do anything more because I wasn't the original creator of the putthaforkdown thread.
In the end though on I just want this thread to be a place for people to go for support no matter the type of diet they are on. It should be similar to the lnst and lunch threads on the OT in the fact it's a place people can go and not be attacked and can shoot the shite.
If people feel it doesn't have enough info on health though I will add more info. But I don't want the thread to be anything more than a place to gather info and a more or less safe space for people to post what they are doing and for people to add constructive advice for those that ask.
I can believe I just posted about safe space.
As far as people's will power. Maybe I am just use to helping those that struggle emotionally and especially women that have fallen off many many times on restrictive diets. I dunno, but I find many fall off restrictive diets.
As far as it being a weight loss vs health thread, I posted stuff about intermittent fasting, keto, Paleo, whole 30, etc in the OP. I can continue to build on it and add info as I have time.
And I get the whole health vs weight thing but honestly you know and I know most people just want to look better naked.
And the thread was 100% originally about weight loss for health. I wasn't trying to make it anymore than the original intention it was created on the food drink for. I add other links about health related things but in general I didn't want to do anything more because I wasn't the original creator of the putthaforkdown thread.
In the end though on I just want this thread to be a place for people to go for support no matter the type of diet they are on. It should be similar to the lnst and lunch threads on the OT in the fact it's a place people can go and not be attacked and can shoot the shite.
If people feel it doesn't have enough info on health though I will add more info. But I don't want the thread to be anything more than a place to gather info and a more or less safe space for people to post what they are doing and for people to add constructive advice for those that ask.
I can believe I just posted about safe space.
As far as people's will power. Maybe I am just use to helping those that struggle emotionally and especially women that have fallen off many many times on restrictive diets. I dunno, but I find many fall off restrictive diets.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:43 am to lsu777
Btw I am posting all of this while enjoying a Darrell's special lol
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:45 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:I disagree. One of the myths of our present predicament is that the general public has not listened to dietary advice. To the contrary, since the start of all of this food pyramid nonsense in the 70s, the public HAS largely adopted the diet they have been advised to adopt.
Essentially the entire country being overweight seems to disagree with your statement.
quote:
WE EAT MORE of all the foods that we were told to increase:
Fresh fruit, up 35%
Fresh vegetables, up 20%
Wheat flour, up 21%
Fish and shellfish, up 23%
Chicken (which we were told to eat instead of red meat), up 114%
Nuts, up 51%
WE EAT LESS OF all the foods that we were told to decrease:
Red meat is down 28%
Beef is down 35%
Pork is down 11%
Veal, lamb and mutton are down 78%
Eggs are down 13% (only in 2015 did the Dietary Guidelines change its policy on cholesterol, suggesting that eggs are now OK)
WE ALSO CHANGED THE FATS IN OUR FOODS, as we were told:
Whole milk is down 79% while lower fat and skim milk are up 127%
Animal fats (saturated fats) are down 27% while….
Vegetable fats and oils (unsaturated fats) are up 87%
Salad and cooking oils are up 248%
LINK
The problem is that science of diet health has not only been absent - but mostly arse-backwards.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:47 am to lsu777
quote:
Btw I am posting all of this while enjoying a Darrell's special lol
I had the Doug's Special at George's the last time I was in BR. I was goddamned proud of him!Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:51 am to Big Scrub TX
I agree that they listen to what to eat, but it's a matter of not listening about how much to eat. Plain and simple obesity is caused by eat too much, no matter the content.
I get keto and many of the foods many are not eating as much of cause more satisfaction but in general we eat way too much as a society.
Btw my 2000 calories Darrell's special I just finished is proof of that. Lol
I get keto and many of the foods many are not eating as much of cause more satisfaction but in general we eat way too much as a society.
Btw my 2000 calories Darrell's special I just finished is proof of that. Lol
Posted on 7/20/18 at 11:57 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
disagree. One of the myths of our present predicament is that the general public has not listened to dietary advice
I don't completely disagree with your statement, but theres fast food joints on every corner. This isn't that complicated.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 12:00 pm to lsu777
quote:Right. I would argue that adopting some form of low carb would make it way easier to naturally limit calories without having to actively think about it (Americans ARE lazy!). All I can tell you is that for me and the 20-30 people I have in my personal orbit put onto some version of low carb, to a person, they have lost weight while marveling at how well they eat and how not hungry they are most of the time.
I agree that they listen to what to eat, but it's a matter of not listening about how much to eat. Plain and simple obesity is caused by eat too much, no matter the content.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 12:04 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:That's anecdotal. By and large, Americans have followed dietary advice they have been hectored with for decades. And the result has been very bad health outcomes. I reject your implied idea that if Americans could receive better information about food (and have new recommendations based on more accurate information) that they would be unable/unwilling to follow those prescriptions. (Note: I actually don't support any government-appointed guidelines...just pointing out that if we HAVE to have guidelines, they should at least be based on fact and not myth.)
I don't completely disagree with your statement, but theres fast food joints on every corner. This isn't that complicated.
As a simple example - if it was explained to Americans that they could have a huge burger with tons of cheese and mayo on it...but just leave the bun behind...and it was HEALTHY for them, they'd do pretty good overall at dropping the bread.
Posted on 7/20/18 at 2:02 pm to lsu777
Yeah I get it. We've gone way in the weeds for this thread. I take blame. I just used to keep coconut water around for the electrolytes, before I became so sugar-conscience [i mean conscious] and then realized it was a waste of money because it doesn't taste that great to me and I can get electrolytes without the sugar.
Time-restricted eating just sort of comes naturally to me, as we've discussed, so I don't think about it that much.
Carry on.
Time-restricted eating just sort of comes naturally to me, as we've discussed, so I don't think about it that much.
Carry on.
This post was edited on 7/20/18 at 3:43 pm
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