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Message
Just had 4 stents put in
Posted on 9/6/23 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 9/6/23 at 1:24 pm
TLDR - Just got stents, rather than open heart surgery. Recovery is a MF'er for open heart. My problems in health are rooted in highly disturbed sleep of long duration. Eat well, exercise, protect your sleep.
On D-Day anniversary I had a heart attack. Found multiple blockages. I had the option of CABG (open heart surgery - Coronary Artery Bypass Graft) or stents.
I went with stents.
My life is not in a place where CABG makes sense for me - it would make me a burden to others during recovery and I can't have that.
My health issues have been in motion since I returned from Iraq - I have not slept normally in over a decade. Prolonged sleep disturbance can be summarized best by the following (IMO) - it's like being overtrained. You know you're overtrained, you can sense it, you know you need rest and food. You feel like just one day of eating a relaxed diet, no stress, with a good night's rest, and tomorrow you'll be right back to normal. But, with prolonged sleep disturbance, tomorrow never comes.
Also, sleep disturbance means that the sun coming up or going down is meaningless to you. For about a decade now, my life has felt pretty much like one really long day. I do not recommend this approach to life.
Lack of sleep is pro-inflammatory, messes up blood sugar regulation, disrupts endocrine function etc. A while back my thyroid stopped working, body stopped making testosterone, fasting blood sugar was 380 at the lab, next visit it was 170, then 125...all over the place. I have since paid more attention to carb intake. They checked my sugar in the hospital and was between 101 and 125, which is reasonable, but you generally want it below 100 if you are fasted. My fasted blood sugar was the highest one on this trip and I assume that was because of gluconeogenesis (liver releasing sugar to keep levels stable).
I see threads here about various issues and it's common to suggest that people address quality sleep concerns - I fully endorse that idea. Protect your sleep. The second you begin to experience disturbed sleep, find a way to fix that. Our bodies cannot function for an extended period without restful and recuperative sleep. Since 2010 I've had less than a dozen days with proper sleep, in my estimation. On those days, however, I feel like I've gone back in time to when I was healthy. That's how much of a difference it makes. I have taken melatonin. It's not all that helpful and I have refused harder medications. In the military I saw what guys looked like when they were on things like Ambien and we had to wake them up if something happened. They were like zombies holding rifles. I don't want that.
I'll be on anti-platelet drugs for the rest of my life. (baby aspirin and Plavix)
Stents have come a long way since they started coating them with medication. Recent trial data also played a part in my decision making, in addition to my life situation.
Procedure was quite long - about 4hrs. That's a long time to lay stiff on a fairly hard surface. They say they gave me some sedation via IV but I didn't notice any effect. I was awake and alert the whole time. Procedures are usually much shorter, but they usually only put in one or two.
They went in through the femoral artery and chose to use an impella device - this is a pump that helps maintain cardiac output during the procedure. Then they went through the process of placing the stents, which is a bit more complicated than assumed. They don't just chuck some chicken wire into the artery wall.
Admitted at 7am yesterday, left the hospital at 1pm today. I was ready to leave yesterday evening but they like to keep you overnight.
This was done at a VA hospital. My local VA is a good hospital. VA's around the country seem to vary. I've been happy with the team at my VA.
Data on CABG v Stents is somewhat hard to parse but in the past CABG was vastly superior, before coating stents with medication. Stent tech has pretty much brought things to parity. In a trial looking at death, heart attack, or stroke, they only found a 1.4% difference between the two after 3yrs. Statistically significant due to sample size, but that's not a practically significant difference, IMO.
In some studies looking at outcomes after putting in stents, blood sugar control was pretty important. Not surprising.
Naturally all the other stuff is important, too - don't drink excessively or smoke, live healthy and so forth. I don't do any of that. My problems are all rooted in sleep.
I asked about exercise precautions - since starting to pay more attention to my carbs, I've lost some weight but I want to lose more, get fit again, etc. I used to be a gym rat. I've trained at various times in my life as a bodybuilder, powerlifter, triathlete or gym fantatic. The gym used to be my haven and I'd like to make it that way again. Doctor said he would put in a referral for cardiac rehab to try to help me get the routine going again and add to whatever I do on my own. (this doctor did my followup and discharge - the doc that did the procedure was a female) This is something that is generally more commonly available through the VA than the private sector, to my understanding. He said to avoid a lot of bending over at the waist for a few days and said I should be careful not to lift anything over 30lbs for about 30 days. Bummer. But, this is far, far better than CABG. Once they crack you open you'll have a ton of precautions for a good amount of time. My daily life won't be affected unless I want to buy a super heavy bag of groceries or re-arrange the furniture.
Drove myself to the hospital and drove myself home, just like when I had the heart attack.
I don't know if anyone else is facing this situation, or if this helps. I'm just putting things out there in case it helps someone.
Live healthy, protect your sleep.
On D-Day anniversary I had a heart attack. Found multiple blockages. I had the option of CABG (open heart surgery - Coronary Artery Bypass Graft) or stents.
I went with stents.
My life is not in a place where CABG makes sense for me - it would make me a burden to others during recovery and I can't have that.
My health issues have been in motion since I returned from Iraq - I have not slept normally in over a decade. Prolonged sleep disturbance can be summarized best by the following (IMO) - it's like being overtrained. You know you're overtrained, you can sense it, you know you need rest and food. You feel like just one day of eating a relaxed diet, no stress, with a good night's rest, and tomorrow you'll be right back to normal. But, with prolonged sleep disturbance, tomorrow never comes.
Also, sleep disturbance means that the sun coming up or going down is meaningless to you. For about a decade now, my life has felt pretty much like one really long day. I do not recommend this approach to life.
Lack of sleep is pro-inflammatory, messes up blood sugar regulation, disrupts endocrine function etc. A while back my thyroid stopped working, body stopped making testosterone, fasting blood sugar was 380 at the lab, next visit it was 170, then 125...all over the place. I have since paid more attention to carb intake. They checked my sugar in the hospital and was between 101 and 125, which is reasonable, but you generally want it below 100 if you are fasted. My fasted blood sugar was the highest one on this trip and I assume that was because of gluconeogenesis (liver releasing sugar to keep levels stable).
I see threads here about various issues and it's common to suggest that people address quality sleep concerns - I fully endorse that idea. Protect your sleep. The second you begin to experience disturbed sleep, find a way to fix that. Our bodies cannot function for an extended period without restful and recuperative sleep. Since 2010 I've had less than a dozen days with proper sleep, in my estimation. On those days, however, I feel like I've gone back in time to when I was healthy. That's how much of a difference it makes. I have taken melatonin. It's not all that helpful and I have refused harder medications. In the military I saw what guys looked like when they were on things like Ambien and we had to wake them up if something happened. They were like zombies holding rifles. I don't want that.
I'll be on anti-platelet drugs for the rest of my life. (baby aspirin and Plavix)
Stents have come a long way since they started coating them with medication. Recent trial data also played a part in my decision making, in addition to my life situation.
Procedure was quite long - about 4hrs. That's a long time to lay stiff on a fairly hard surface. They say they gave me some sedation via IV but I didn't notice any effect. I was awake and alert the whole time. Procedures are usually much shorter, but they usually only put in one or two.
They went in through the femoral artery and chose to use an impella device - this is a pump that helps maintain cardiac output during the procedure. Then they went through the process of placing the stents, which is a bit more complicated than assumed. They don't just chuck some chicken wire into the artery wall.
Admitted at 7am yesterday, left the hospital at 1pm today. I was ready to leave yesterday evening but they like to keep you overnight.
This was done at a VA hospital. My local VA is a good hospital. VA's around the country seem to vary. I've been happy with the team at my VA.
Data on CABG v Stents is somewhat hard to parse but in the past CABG was vastly superior, before coating stents with medication. Stent tech has pretty much brought things to parity. In a trial looking at death, heart attack, or stroke, they only found a 1.4% difference between the two after 3yrs. Statistically significant due to sample size, but that's not a practically significant difference, IMO.
In some studies looking at outcomes after putting in stents, blood sugar control was pretty important. Not surprising.
Naturally all the other stuff is important, too - don't drink excessively or smoke, live healthy and so forth. I don't do any of that. My problems are all rooted in sleep.
I asked about exercise precautions - since starting to pay more attention to my carbs, I've lost some weight but I want to lose more, get fit again, etc. I used to be a gym rat. I've trained at various times in my life as a bodybuilder, powerlifter, triathlete or gym fantatic. The gym used to be my haven and I'd like to make it that way again. Doctor said he would put in a referral for cardiac rehab to try to help me get the routine going again and add to whatever I do on my own. (this doctor did my followup and discharge - the doc that did the procedure was a female) This is something that is generally more commonly available through the VA than the private sector, to my understanding. He said to avoid a lot of bending over at the waist for a few days and said I should be careful not to lift anything over 30lbs for about 30 days. Bummer. But, this is far, far better than CABG. Once they crack you open you'll have a ton of precautions for a good amount of time. My daily life won't be affected unless I want to buy a super heavy bag of groceries or re-arrange the furniture.
Drove myself to the hospital and drove myself home, just like when I had the heart attack.
I don't know if anyone else is facing this situation, or if this helps. I'm just putting things out there in case it helps someone.
Live healthy, protect your sleep.
Posted on 9/6/23 at 1:33 pm to POTUS2024
Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you get the sleep under control and can bounce back and get back in the gym soon.
Did they think the heart issues were a result of sleep problems or vice versa?
Did they think the heart issues were a result of sleep problems or vice versa?
Posted on 9/6/23 at 1:33 pm to POTUS2024
man hope you get better and yes sleep is one of the biggest things for overall health.
message should be...if you have sleep problems, stop putting it off and go have a sleep study done!!!
message should be...if you have sleep problems, stop putting it off and go have a sleep study done!!!
Posted on 9/6/23 at 2:16 pm to POTUS2024
Take care of yourself. Hope you get better.
I feel like sleep is one of the last frontiers of health, in that even if we as a society don't promote health enough, at least we pay lip service to diet and exercise being beneficial.
Sleep however is a different matter. Many (particularly in my industry) view lack of sleep as a sign of dedication to work and being industrious, and conversely view a dedication to proper sleep as being "lazy". The reality as the OP knows is that lack of proper sleep can be deadly.
I feel like sleep is one of the last frontiers of health, in that even if we as a society don't promote health enough, at least we pay lip service to diet and exercise being beneficial.
Sleep however is a different matter. Many (particularly in my industry) view lack of sleep as a sign of dedication to work and being industrious, and conversely view a dedication to proper sleep as being "lazy". The reality as the OP knows is that lack of proper sleep can be deadly.
Posted on 9/6/23 at 2:32 pm to Mo Jeaux
I don't have sleep trouble, but I recently had someone with apnea mention this to me:
Siesta Medical
It's a pretty non-invasive insertion that seems to really be changing the game for people suffering greatly.
Siesta Medical
It's a pretty non-invasive insertion that seems to really be changing the game for people suffering greatly.
Posted on 9/6/23 at 2:38 pm to POTUS2024
Thank you for sharing your story, Godspeed!
Posted on 9/6/23 at 3:56 pm to POTUS2024
Glad to hear you've made it through that procedure safely, and thank you for sharing a detailed account of your experience. Most people wouldn't read all of that, but everyone should, especially men. I've been a critical care nurse for 15 or so years and I love to know that there are people like you out there that care about themselves and try to do the right thing, try to do what's best for their particular situation. I take care of too many folks that want 5 star level care, demand stellar outcomes, but won't lift a damn finger for themselves.
I couldn't agree more with you about the importance of sleep. Once I realized I had issues I got the sleep study done, and even though having obstructive sleep apnea and needing to wear a CPAP turned me into a cliche(fat, former football player, weightlifter dude wears a CPAP), I happily strap it on every night and sleep like a baby. Doing so is probably why I was able to halt and slowly reverse several other major health issues that were no doubt developing. Start that cardiac rehab and be consistent and you'll reap the benefits.
I couldn't agree more with you about the importance of sleep. Once I realized I had issues I got the sleep study done, and even though having obstructive sleep apnea and needing to wear a CPAP turned me into a cliche(fat, former football player, weightlifter dude wears a CPAP), I happily strap it on every night and sleep like a baby. Doing so is probably why I was able to halt and slowly reverse several other major health issues that were no doubt developing. Start that cardiac rehab and be consistent and you'll reap the benefits.
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:23 am to Tiger Ryno
quote:
Did they think the heart issues were a result of sleep problems or vice versa?
Docs didn't speculate on causes. They were just looking at treatment. I started looking into sleep and the problems it causes some time ago. Saw a psychologist for help getting in the routine of using a CPAP (cognitive behavioral therapy - they should just call it, "How to start a new habit"), and she was amazed when I told her that the sleep worried me because of the consequences it will inevitably bring.
Before my sleep issues started I was in extremely good health. I was a zero on a 10 year risk score etc etc etc.
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:50 am to DrDenim
quote:
Glad to hear you've made it through that procedure safely, and thank you for sharing a detailed account of your experience. Most people wouldn't read all of that, but everyone should, especially men. I've been a critical care nurse for 15 or so years and I love to know that there are people like you out there that care about themselves and try to do the right thing, try to do what's best for their particular situation. I take care of too many folks that want 5 star level care, demand stellar outcomes, but won't lift a damn finger for themselves.
I couldn't agree more with you about the importance of sleep. Once I realized I had issues I got the sleep study done, and even though having obstructive sleep apnea and needing to wear a CPAP turned me into a cliche(fat, former football player, weightlifter dude wears a CPAP), I happily strap it on every night and sleep like a baby. Doing so is probably why I was able to halt and slowly reverse several other major health issues that were no doubt developing. Start that cardiac rehab and be consistent and you'll reap the benefits.
Thanks - I have seen some of the patients you refer to, at the VA. I've also worked and volunteered at the VA I received care at - and it's disheartening to see patients like that. When there are difficult patients, it seems like it's an exponential increase in burden to the nursing staff. Not all difficult patients do it on purpose, of course. When I was in the MICU after my heart attack, my nurse got pulled away a lot because of one patient. There were some psychiatric issues, I think. But, it took the whole team to help out.
Glad to hear about your experiences with the CPAP and those health issues.
You see the nurses more than any other group when you're in the hospital, and just sitting in a room, you can tell that the job isn't always peachy. I try to be as respectful as I can to the nurses. They really do make a difference in care and how the hospital stay goes.
Posted on 9/7/23 at 12:51 am to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I don't have sleep trouble, but I recently had someone with apnea mention this to me:
Siesta Medical
It's a pretty non-invasive insertion that seems to really be changing the game for people suffering greatly.
Thanks, I'll take a look at that.
Posted on 9/10/23 at 11:31 am to POTUS2024
You are lucky you had an aggressive cardiologist that would do it, many just punt to the surgeons if the lesions are many, widespread, diffuse, not focal. And you’re right about stents being better today. Ten year data comparing CABG versus stent, it’s just that, 10 years old.
You are 100% right about the importance of sleep, and if you haven’t read Matt Walkers why we sleep you should. But it’s really just speculation, as heart disease is so common, prevalent, and the number one cause of death today.
Probably the best thing we can do is mimic the blue zones. But the biggest levers we can pull are no matter the diet, being on the lower end of normal weight, 10,000 steps a day, 140 minutes a week of zone 2 cardio, 20 minutes a week of zone 3-4, and I think most underestimated lever is meaning, purpose, social, friendship, not lonely stuff.
You are 100% right about the importance of sleep, and if you haven’t read Matt Walkers why we sleep you should. But it’s really just speculation, as heart disease is so common, prevalent, and the number one cause of death today.
Probably the best thing we can do is mimic the blue zones. But the biggest levers we can pull are no matter the diet, being on the lower end of normal weight, 10,000 steps a day, 140 minutes a week of zone 2 cardio, 20 minutes a week of zone 3-4, and I think most underestimated lever is meaning, purpose, social, friendship, not lonely stuff.
This post was edited on 9/10/23 at 11:36 am
Posted on 9/13/23 at 12:29 am to Rust Cohle
Thanks for the comment.
They tried with the surgical consult. Told them I would think about it. Went to PubMed and pulled down the literature. Old bare metal stents were far inferior. Newer ones are pretty much at parity with CABG, once you remove revascularization from the combined end point - and it never made sense to include it to begin with because it's such a dramatic difference between procedures. I think it was the PROTECT trial with only a 1.4% difference in combined end point of MI, Stroke, Death after 3yrs. Statistically significant but not practically significant. Older trials that found wider margins were a mix of older stents. As I read through these papers I then found one or two commentaries with doctors saying not to pressure patients so much to go surgical, that the rates of PCI were increasing, that was not going to change, outcome differences continue narrowing etc. I felt good about my decision.
They said there was an interaction of diabetes and treatment approach but I didn't see that in the literature except for older stents. For some reason these trials don't follow up with glucose control, but in PCI-only trials they do, and better control means better outcomes. HbA1C cut off of 6.0 was referenced and I am shooting for much lower than that. I ate really well for 5 days after my procedure, then took two days to have some carbs and regular food as a farewell to garbage and now it's going to be a super strict diet from now till the day I die.
I was just able to find a copy and am going to read it. I pull things down from PubMed and I understand that poor sleep wrecks glucose control, endo function, is pro-inflammatory etc.
Some time ago - One of my glucose measurements was about 350 - no sleep the night prior and the doctor and I weren't sure if there were errors or what. Previously it was 90, like a few years prior. Went back again, got about two hours sleep, it was 170. Started paying attention to carbs and it was then 130 and has been there or lower since.
This all makes sense, especially that last part. I want my weight way down - want to get back to a level where I was when I was doing triathlon training. I accomplished all of my weightlifting / powerlifting goals and want to go back to triathlon training, although I'll probably just do biking and swimming.
My life is entirely dysfunctional and has been for a while. Spent time homeless and other issues. By far, for me, the worst part of being homeless was being lonely. I remember heading to the woods where I would camp and as I turned in I had this endless, black hole, sinking feeling knowing there was no one around. I would listen to a radio and hear something interesting and then realize there was no one there to turn to and say anything about it. Loneliness is a real kick in the nuts.
10yrs ago I was in stellar health. Zero risk. Everything that could go wrong, did. Or so it seems. Thankfully I never self-destructed with smoking or activities like that. No drugs. No alcohol in years. Otherwise, I'm sure I'd be dead.
Thanks again for the comment, going to start reading Walker's book tonight.
quote:
You are lucky you had an aggressive cardiologist that would do it, many just punt to the surgeons if the lesions are many, widespread, diffuse, not focal.
They tried with the surgical consult. Told them I would think about it. Went to PubMed and pulled down the literature. Old bare metal stents were far inferior. Newer ones are pretty much at parity with CABG, once you remove revascularization from the combined end point - and it never made sense to include it to begin with because it's such a dramatic difference between procedures. I think it was the PROTECT trial with only a 1.4% difference in combined end point of MI, Stroke, Death after 3yrs. Statistically significant but not practically significant. Older trials that found wider margins were a mix of older stents. As I read through these papers I then found one or two commentaries with doctors saying not to pressure patients so much to go surgical, that the rates of PCI were increasing, that was not going to change, outcome differences continue narrowing etc. I felt good about my decision.
They said there was an interaction of diabetes and treatment approach but I didn't see that in the literature except for older stents. For some reason these trials don't follow up with glucose control, but in PCI-only trials they do, and better control means better outcomes. HbA1C cut off of 6.0 was referenced and I am shooting for much lower than that. I ate really well for 5 days after my procedure, then took two days to have some carbs and regular food as a farewell to garbage and now it's going to be a super strict diet from now till the day I die.
quote:
You are 100% right about the importance of sleep, and if you haven’t read Matt Walkers why we sleep you should.
I was just able to find a copy and am going to read it. I pull things down from PubMed and I understand that poor sleep wrecks glucose control, endo function, is pro-inflammatory etc.
Some time ago - One of my glucose measurements was about 350 - no sleep the night prior and the doctor and I weren't sure if there were errors or what. Previously it was 90, like a few years prior. Went back again, got about two hours sleep, it was 170. Started paying attention to carbs and it was then 130 and has been there or lower since.
quote:
But the biggest levers we can pull are no matter the diet, being on the lower end of normal weight, 10,000 steps a day, 140 minutes a week of zone 2 cardio, 20 minutes a week of zone 3-4, and I think most underestimated lever is meaning, purpose, social, friendship, not lonely stuff.
This all makes sense, especially that last part. I want my weight way down - want to get back to a level where I was when I was doing triathlon training. I accomplished all of my weightlifting / powerlifting goals and want to go back to triathlon training, although I'll probably just do biking and swimming.
My life is entirely dysfunctional and has been for a while. Spent time homeless and other issues. By far, for me, the worst part of being homeless was being lonely. I remember heading to the woods where I would camp and as I turned in I had this endless, black hole, sinking feeling knowing there was no one around. I would listen to a radio and hear something interesting and then realize there was no one there to turn to and say anything about it. Loneliness is a real kick in the nuts.
10yrs ago I was in stellar health. Zero risk. Everything that could go wrong, did. Or so it seems. Thankfully I never self-destructed with smoking or activities like that. No drugs. No alcohol in years. Otherwise, I'm sure I'd be dead.
Thanks again for the comment, going to start reading Walker's book tonight.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 12:02 pm to POTUS2024
May God bless you and keep you as you heal brother!
What VA hospital did you have your surgery at?
Thank you for sharing your story.
What VA hospital did you have your surgery at?
Thank you for sharing your story.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 5:22 am to DefensorFortis
quote:
May God bless you and keep you as you heal brother!
What VA hospital did you have your surgery at?
Thank you for sharing your story.
Thanks, man. I was at the Gainesville, FL VA hospital.
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