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Is the traditional split (Chest and Tris, Back and Bis, Shoulders and Legs) outdated

Posted on 5/6/21 at 9:09 am
Posted by VanRIch
Wherever
Member since Sep 2007
10370 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 9:09 am
I'm looking to update my routine to something more beneficial for strength and muscle gain. I've always been a casual lifter and never seemed to have a problem with this routine. But I feel like I've read a few places over the years that it turns out this isn't the best way to train. Maybe I didn't read that, and I'm fine with what I'm doing. I fricking hate trying to research workout routines because there is literally an infinite number of options and everyone thinks there's is the right one. I don't know how to find the right one for me. Help me out, please!
This post was edited on 5/6/21 at 9:10 am
Posted by Hand of Justice
Member since Jun 2010
119 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 9:19 am to
The splits are more of a personal preference and what works for you. Make sure you are hitting everything and focus more on what exercises to pick. Then experiment with splits and find what works best for you.
Posted by Bonkers119
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2015
10128 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 9:59 am to
I wouldn't say its outdated, it's just morphed into being called PPL (Push, Pull, Legs) by most lifters these days.

I hate looking for routines, but unfortunately is part of the process. It's better than just wandering aimlessly around the gym. Finding the right one just depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

There are a lot of great routines I look over on liftvault.com.
This post was edited on 5/6/21 at 9:59 am
Posted by Homey the Clown
Member since Feb 2009
5711 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 10:06 am to
Mine goes like this:

Chest
Back
Shoulder/Tris
Legs/Bis

Then if I have time for another day of lifting, I'll do a day where I do one exercise of each of those that I did'nt do on their day. So one chest, one back, one shoulder, etc.

Been doing it that way for years, and its how i can get the most different lifts in the amount of time i have. Typically get in six different lifts per group each workout.
Posted by KoozieKing
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
203 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 10:30 am to
The bro splits usually only hits the specific body part once a week. Full body or Push / Pull allows for training the specific body part multiple times a week.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
30965 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 10:36 am to
not outdated but you want to hit bodyparts twice a week if at all possible. in general you will be much better off finding a pre designed routine by one of the best in your field that is tried and true.

let us help you on the right path, tell us the following

age
height
weight
goals
expierence i.e. how long and how much you lift
how many days a week you want to lift and how long
commercial gym or limited equipment
Posted by pwejr88
Red Stick
Member since Apr 2007
36162 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 10:49 am to
I’d like this also.

quote:


age - 39
height - 5’9”
weight -158
goals - bigger muscles
expierence i.e. how long and how much you lift - Almost two years, -
PR bench 225, DL 300
how many days a week you want to lift and how long - 4 days a week. 1-1.5 hours a time
commercial gym or limited equipment - commercial gym
Posted by VanRIch
Wherever
Member since Sep 2007
10370 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 11:00 am to
age - 42
height - 6’4”
weight -205
goals - bigger leaner muscles
expierence i.e. how long and how much you lift - Pretty consistent for around 3 years although I’m just getting back in after 5 weeks off from a shoulder injury
Bench workout ~175, haven’t done a Max in a while but I can lift 225 2-3 times. Leg press workout ~500 deadlift workout approaching ~200
how many days a week you want to lift and how long - 4 days a week. 1-1.5 hours a weight training and was to start doing HIIT on day 5
commercial gym or limited equipment - commercial gym
This post was edited on 5/6/21 at 11:02 am
Posted by Cheesy Beaver
Kenna brah
Member since Dec 2014
4424 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 11:03 am to
quote:

Is the traditional split (Chest and Tris, Back and Bis, Shoulders and Legs) outdated


no. really just depends on what your goals are. if you already have a solid base and are looking to just maintain then hitting a body part a 1x a week frequency is acceptable. but if you're looking to gain your frequency per body part needs to be somewhere around 2-3x per week. PPL is that split with front/side delts on the chest tris day and rear delts on the back bis day.

A hill I will always be willing to die on is that a day dedicated to shoulders is completely unnecessary. the muscles recover quickly and should be hit multiple times throughout the week to be adequately trained, not just destroyed on one day a week. Same thing with abs.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5177 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 1:22 pm to
Probably not outdated, just overtime more variety in splits have been popularized with additional science and probably also a shorter attention span among those in the gym.

When I started about 2.5 years ago I did push/pull/legs twice a week. Covid closed gyms so I started running to mix in with my home workouts. Now work and children are making it more difficult to find time so I’ve just gone to full body 2-3x and running 2-3x per week. I treat a 3rd workout in a week as a bonus because lately I’ve only been going twice, but the switch to full body means no matter what I’m hitting everything twice vs sometimes only once with my previous upper/lower split I’d gone to. Thankfully I got into running and can knock out solid calorie burn in 30 minutes when scheduled or if I don’t have time for the gym I can just run after we get the kids to bed.

Posted by whiskey over ice
Member since Sep 2020
3251 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 2:20 pm to
quote:

age - 39
height - 5’9”
weight -158
goals - bigger muscles
expierence i.e. how long and how much you lift - Almost two years, -
PR bench 225, DL 300
how many days a week you want to lift and how long - 4 days a week. 1-1.5 hours a time
commercial gym or limited equipment - commercial gym


The Candito Program might work for you. You’re already fairly strong for your size so this might squeeze out the last of the easier strength gains. Your deadlift has plenty of room for improvement. It’s an Upper/Lower power/hypertrophy program. Seems like a poster or two around here was running this.

ETA: another is 5/3/1 Boring But Big (too boring for me) and pretty much any upper/lower program.
This post was edited on 5/6/21 at 2:34 pm
Posted by DeafJam73
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
18401 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 2:34 pm to
Really depends on what your goals are. If you just want to be fit and kind of body build, it’s probably fine. It you want to strength train and work towards a higher level of performance, there are better ways to do it.
Posted by Bonkers119
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2015
10128 posts
Posted on 5/6/21 at 3:41 pm to
I’ve ran Candito’s 6 week program a couple times, and I’ve added 20+ lbs to my squat and deadlift.

The only thing is the programming for bench was pretty underwhelming. I have to bench 2-3 times a week to see any progress there though.

I would definitely recommend it though.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
30965 posts
Posted on 5/7/21 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

pwejr88


I think boring but big as mentioned would be perfect for you.

I would suggest running the 3 month challenge and go from there

LINK

Here is all of wendlers books

LINK

I suggest reading them and using the ultimate 531 app LINK
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
30965 posts
Posted on 5/7/21 at 2:06 pm to
quote:

VanRIch


For you I would suggest 531 krypteia program.

Start light. See link above for all of wendlers programs. The krypteia program is in forever book, at the end.



Some other good programs to take a look at

mind pump maps

john meadows

joe defranco

One great program is the sb911 and ws4sb in the defranco folder.

But everyone looking for programs outside of the greyskull program I have written a shite ton about can look in those folders

greyskull
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51350 posts
Posted on 5/9/21 at 12:21 pm to
I don't do back and biceps and tris and chest on same day.

Overwork the muscle and you don't get as much out of it as you could.

Chest is alone with me. I do back and triceps and then quads and biceps. Shoulders and hamstrings.
Posted by VanRIch
Wherever
Member since Sep 2007
10370 posts
Posted on 5/12/21 at 1:40 pm to
So I'm wondering if I'm over training and not concentrating on less sets of heavier weights? My chest/tris today was:
Incline bench press 6-6-7(reps) @ 155
Bench press 6-6-7 @ 175
Decline bench press 6-6-7 @ 175
Incline dumbbell flys 8-8-10 @ 35
dumbbell flys 8-8-8 @ 45
Incline dummbell press8-8-8 @ 50
Dumbbell bench press 8-8-8 @ 60
Decline cable flys 8-8-8 @ 25
Tricep cable pushdowns 10-10-12 @ 85
Overhead single tricep ext 10-10-10 @ 35
Tricep kickbacks 10-10-10 @ 25
Dumbbell pull overs 10-10-10 @ 55

I'm reading a lot of programs like Greyskull that says three exercises per day, 3 days a week. Doesn't seem like enough, but again, I'm the one asking for advice, so what do I know? I just know I've been doing this for a while, and I want different results. I started doing greyskull, but I was done after like 20 minutes and thought, 'well this isn't going to do anything for me'
Posted by whiskey over ice
Member since Sep 2020
3251 posts
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:02 pm to
That’s a ton of volume imo. Are you running that once a week?
Posted by VanRIch
Wherever
Member since Sep 2007
10370 posts
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:09 pm to
Sometimes twice, depends on how my week runs. If this lands on a Monday, I will do it again on Thurs or Fri.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
30965 posts
Posted on 5/12/21 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

So I'm wondering if I'm over training and not concentrating on less sets of heavier weights? My chest/tris today was:
Incline bench press 6-6-7(reps) @ 155
Bench press 6-6-7 @ 175
Decline bench press 6-6-7 @ 175
Incline dumbbell flys 8-8-10 @ 35
dumbbell flys 8-8-8 @ 45
Incline dummbell press8-8-8 @ 50
Dumbbell bench press 8-8-8 @ 60
Decline cable flys 8-8-8 @ 25
Tricep cable pushdowns 10-10-12 @ 85
Overhead single tricep ext 10-10-10 @ 35
Tricep kickbacks 10-10-10 @ 25
Dumbbell pull overs 10-10-10 @ 55


HOLY shite MAN. but why lol. yes that is pretty much point less.

you have frickarounditis

quote:

I'm reading a lot of programs like Greyskull that says three exercises per day, 3 days a week. Doesn't seem like enough, but again, I'm the one asking for advice, so what do I know? I just know I've been doing this for a while, and I want different results. I started doing greyskull, but I was done after like 20 minutes and thought, 'well this isn't going to do anything for me'


try this

quote:

LSU777 GSLP for Aesthetics- so I see alot of people jumping straight to this template, for the record this is more of a intermediate lifter. Shouldn't really be rowing until you can deadlift 405 for reps and do 10-12 bodyweight chins.

Week 1:
• Monday-
o Press-2x5,1x5+
o High Incline DB Press-3x10-12
o Weighted Chin-2x6-8
o Yates Row-2x6-8
o Squat-2x5,1x5+

• Wednesday-
o Incline Barbell Bench-2x5,1x5+
o Barbell Curl- 2x10-12
o Close Grip Bench-2x8,1x8+
o DB Side Lateral Raise Super-setted with Face Pulls-2x10-12
o Deadlift-1x5+

• Friday-
o Press-2x5,1x5+
o High Incline DB Press-3x10-12
o Weighted Chin-2x6-8
o Yates Row-2x6-8
o Squat-2x5,1x5+

Week 2:
• Monday-
o Incline Barbell Bench-2x5,1x5+
o Barbell Curl- 2x10-12
o Close Grip Bench-2x8,1x8+
o DB Side Lateral Raise Super-setted with Face Pulls-2x10-12
o Squat-2x5,1x5+

• Wednesday-
o Press-2x5,1x5+
o High Incline DB Press-3x10-12
o Weighted Chin-2x6-8
o Yates Row-2x6-8
o Deadlift-1x5+

• Friday-
o Incline Barbell Bench-2x5,1x5+
o Barbell Curl- 2x10-12
o Close Grip Bench-2x8,1x8+
o DB Side Lateral Raise Super-setted with Face Pulls-2x10-12
o Squat-2x5,1x5+



now you have to understand you are going to have a warm up, the workout, possibly conditioning

quote:

1 round-
10-15 - shoulder rolls on all 4
10-15 - scapular shrugs
25 - Bar dislocates
25 - Band Pull Aparts
25 - Band Overhead straight arm pull downs (Y to T)
25 - banded chest flyes
25 - very hard and slow banded dislocates(these should burn)
25- tib raises
15 - each leg front swings
15 - each leg side swings
10- assisted nordics
10- per leg atg split squat
25 - lying YWTs with no weight but iso holds at each position.

arch body holds super setted with hollow body holds-4 to 5 rounds


from there I may repeat a set or two of certain exercises if I feel I am tight.

I consider that my mobility/stretching. from there I do the follow

3-4 rounds- i consider this my warm up, similar to the wenning warm up but using exercise that fit me.

10-15 reps prisoner squat with pase at the bottom and explosion out the bottom. I will do 1 set really wide and focusing on shins parallel to the floor and pushing arse back and knees out. Then next set i do more of an olympic knees over toes squat.

10-15 Pushups-i am being very mindful to pause at the bottom and explode out and making sure my scapula pulls together at the bottom and pushes apart at the top

3-5 dead hang pullups- again if I am focusing on the scapula movement

2-3 skin the cats on the rings with a german hang at the bottom

if I am feeling tight or beat up in the shoulder area or upper back I will also do ring scare crows and facepulls with rotation.

If legs feel tight I will do some glute bridges or frog pumps along with some furniture slider bodyweight leg curls. This is to activate and mobilize the posterior chain.

before the main lifts I will also grab a lighter weight and do really high reps similar to how matt wenning decribes.

For example last night I had heavy DB press. So after the above I did the following EMOM

KB Press- 18's- 25 reps supersetting with 3 chins
KB Press 26's- 15 reps supersetting with 3 chins
KB press 26's- 15 reps supersetting with 3 chins



OK so what does all this mean

you will come in and do the following

1) mobility as described above
2) warmup as described above
3) perform the workout as laid out above taking 2-3 min on the main exercises between sets, 60-90s on the otehrs.
4) 10-12 min of conditioning as laid out in the greyskull books.

on top of this, you should be performing the frequency method or ladder method bodyweight work on pushups and chins. this and the warmup are were you build your volume. If you are not doing the bodyweight work you are not doing the greyskull lp

you could also do the 531 kryptea program that i think i recommended to you a while back.


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