re: How long before they start cracking down on TRT

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If you haven’t noticed that people are abusing trt you’re just biased. There is a TON of gray area with it that gives room for test level manipulation/abuse

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thats not trt though, thats using a steroid cycle.

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I’ve already heard stories of guys using a test cycle to crash their natty test levels just so when they hop off, they can hit up a trt clinic and get their juice legally

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again not trt.

if you want to talk about legalilty of steroids, fine we can do that( i will make you look stupid as you have no rational arguement other than jelousy), but please do not confuse people taking steroids as TRT even if they call it that, its not the same.

TRT is very simple, its a replacement for your natural levels and should put you in the range of your natural levels for your age. Anything more is not TRT. there is no grey area. its pretty damn simple. there are many reason why one may not be producing test anymore and its a perfectly legit medical issue. making it anything else makes you look like a fricking idiot with a biased approach.

now lets discuss the legalilty of steroids shall we

1) it was made illegal in the USA, mainly because of Hatch of Utah and our esteemed president after ben johnson won the olympics. They wanted it out of sports, which is a perfectly reasonable response. If representing your country...you should play by the rules.

2) there have been no athletes really charged with the possession of steroids since the bill was passed. Lying to federeal agents(another stupid fricking arse law) and even money laundering but athletes by and large have not been affected by the law

3) thousands of normal everyday recreational guys and bodybuilders have been affected by the law

4) use of steroids affects no one besides the user. there is absolutely no moral or legal arguement for them being illegal, especially if things like plastic surgery are legal.

think about the absurdity of....its ok to go get calf implants but you can not take steroids and grow them. or its ok for a women to get arse implants, but a guy doing a cycle and doing booty by bret is now illegal.

or its ok to take steroids if you want to be the other sex, but not if you are just looking to put on some muscle.

Personally i do not use anything but my trt. But i am almost 40 with 3 kids, i dont have time to dedicate to the kind of program it takes to see the kind of results you want on a cycle, I also am too into my overall health at this point and the legality of it in the end would keep me from using anyways.

but as mentioned a million times, why in the frick do you care what others are doing?

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Dude. Drive your arse to Baton Rouge. Let’s go lift some logs or something man. Seriously

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one day brother, one day.



laughable all the idiots think everyone that is big and ripped is juiced. honestly they scream it at anyone that is ripped above 150 lbs. the concept of how to stay consistent and putting in decades of work is beyong them.

people screaming at layne norton that he is juiced, that brian alshure is juiced etc.... not realizing these guys put in literal decades of heavy arse lifting to get where they are. They also didnt bulk, cut, bulk, cut over and over. They ate and fricking ate and lifted heavy arse slag iron for years and then would cut down. Its a compliment to those guys when people scream juice but it also goes to speak to the pussy arse mindset now a days for sure and the instant gratification crowd that instagram has created.

over the years I have become more and more jaded and realize how lazy people really are, even many of those who claim to want something.

honestly this board has helped me a lot because there are some serious lifters like you and many others in the daily threads that motivate the frick out of me. :cheers: :cheers:

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There is no damn Grey area when it comes to trt. What you're describing is guys using steroids. Trt is a very controlled regimen being monitored by a doctor. If you're seeing a bunch of Meatheads running around the gym claiming that they are on trt. Well they're lying.

Let me ask you a simple question that only requires a yes or no answer. Do you consider an all-natural mid-20s man that has never taken a supplement in his life, to be on steroids?

Because in general, that's the levels that the doctors are shooting for for trt. No one that is on trt, and is being monitored by a doctor, is running around your gym looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime.

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this fricking man gets it!!!

so I have a question for some of y'all with low T or that are currently taking TRT

I'm approaching 40 and I still feel fine. Still killing it in the gym. Plenty of energy. Sex drive is enough to annoy the frick out of my wife. Only noticeable difference in my body is how quickly I recover these days.

Did y'all kinda fall off a cliff when you hit your mid 40s, or was it something you noticed gradually in your late 30s early 40s?

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so I have a question for some of y'all with low T or that are currently taking TRT

I'm approaching 40 and I still feel fine. Still killing it in the gym. Plenty of energy. Sex drive is enough to annoy the frick out of my wife. Only noticeable difference in my body is how quickly I recover these days.

Did y'all kinda fall off a cliff when you hit your mid 40s, or was it something you noticed gradually in your late 30s early 40s?

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well minie was a little different i guess. I was still killing it in gym and sex life was great but i was tired alot, really alot. But i discovered mine when a vericosile caused me to have fertility issues between 2nd and 3rd kid. so none of the stuff you talked about.

What i suggest to people is get a blood test done to check levels at 25, 30, 35, 40 etc. Monitor it to get baselines and if you have a test that is low but you feel fine....well get a couple test done over a 6 months period and make your decision based off of that.

in general it sounds like you are fine but its always great to have a baseline.

Mine was mainly fatigue also. I chalked it up to waking up early to workout and being in grad school.

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I don’t care wether people are on TRT or not, nor do I care if they’re abusing it. That’s not the point of this thread. Like I said previously, if I was middle aged and didn’t have to worry about fertility I’d be all over it myself.

It was an honest question. Usually as things become abused in the medical field, more stringent control falls in place.

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true trt is already extremely controlled and stringent

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I’m no doctor but I do know that testosterone injections are free test. Free test is a huge driver of hypertrophy. When you inject, your free test spikes, later being converted into things like SHBG, DHT, Estrogen etc. and the blood test often occur a few days after injections so that this huge spike in free test has already passed and will not be reflected in the results.

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well thats for god damn sure because thats not how that works, not how any of it works. the test you inject is no different than what you produce except it has an ester attached usually in the form of the enanthate or cypionate to slow the diggestion of the test and to mimick more of a natural blood saturation levels. Its not "free test" as you are calling it, nor is it test on top of what you are already producing as that stops when you start the injections.

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the blood test often occur a few days after injections so that this huge spike in free test has already passed and will not be reflected in the results.

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usually with trt you are using the enanthate or cypionate ester. peak blood concentration levels happen between 48-72 hours after the injection. Proper TRT protocol has you taking the shot every 72 or 96 hours (twice weekly) so the peak is very miniscule. But even if some one is on once a month, sure they get a very large spike out of the range but they also spend much of that month well under range. I.E it balances out.

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I don’t think that you can consider someone on trt and someone natural on the same playing field even if their blood work looks similar.

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the absolute only advantage someone on trt has over someone natural with the same levels would be much less peaks and valleys and serum levels would be more steady. But i do not consider myself a natural for that reason, but there should be very little difference between true trt and someone natural.

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This along with a good bit of anecdotal evidence is enough for me to believe that there is a significant difference between someone on TRT that tests within the natural T threshold vs someone’s that actually has natural T levels.

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your anecdotal evidence is more than likely almost exclusively based on those claiming to be using trt and abusing it.

Like i said very little difference between true trt and natural trainee. Steroids or those with out of range blood levels....or those with the test levels of an 18 year old while in their late 40s...yea that is different.

beleive what you want, but your opinion is based on bullshite in general. And i dont mean that as an insult, like so many things in this industry people are deceiving fricks. Mainly because they have been forced to be due to legal purposes and pussies that get their feelings hurt because someone is bigger. So they have to protect thier reputations, even the family guy with an office job, so they lie and say they are on TRT when they are on grams of gear.

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So you don’t think a 40 year old with the testosterone of an 18 year old has an advantage over a 40 old with the testosterone of a 40 year old? Or even a 18 year old with the testosterone of an 18 year old?

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First it's definitely not the testosterone levels of an 18 year old, I believe most shoot for levels in the mid to late 20's.

But that doesn't really matter, the whole idea is treating the symptoms associated with low testosterone (extreme fatigue, unacceptable body fat, memory loss, libido issues, etc).

That means the ideal level is different for each person. And to answer your question pointedly, hell yeah the 40 year old TRT guy has health advantages over the one with fatigue, shitty sleep, etc.

That's the entire point of TRT, to not feel like a total shite bag.

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How many times do I have to tell you, that's not trt? Wtf do you not understand?

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Apparently not enough.

At least he acknowledged that his thoughts were opinions and anecdotes. Still doesn't make it right though.

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It’s a mental illness. It’s sad seeing ex juicers who are having to rely on TRT to be motivated to get out of bed in the morning. Most these guys are in their mid to late 30’s and early to mid 40’s. Very few people should need TRT at those age ranges. It’s funny trying to hear people justify it like it is normal. It isn’t.

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It's almost like you morons either can't read or can't think outside of your illogical bubble. TRT isn't what anyone in this thread is referring to, you idiots are talking about juicers.

And you're wrong, test levels can definitely start, and in fact do, decline in your 40's even late 30's.

Just because you're an O-natural herculean addonis doesn't mean others don't need help. F'ing idiots in this thread.