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re: Are steroids just now a free game and not interfered with any longer?
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:06 am to chili pup
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:06 am to chili pup
Unless you are a mass distributer, nobody cares. Plus, unless you are a moron, its pretty difficult to get caught with. Its not like people are joy riding around with vials of test or tren sitting out on their front seat for cops to see at a traffic stop. You also have a ton of cops using as well. I mean peak Ronnie Coleman was a cop 
ETA: Its also not tested for in employment drug screens. You can go on instagram and find people who compete at the NPC or IFBB level in bodybuilding that are clearly on juice (you have to be to be successful) that are Doctors, Nurses, PA's, NP's, Dentists, in just about every profession imaginable. They are illegal, but society has pretty much turned a blind eye, since they aren't mind altering substances and they aren't going to affect your ability to work, drive, or function like a normal person.
Hopefully if someone like RFK Jr gets elected as president they will make a push to remove controlled substance status.
ETA: Its also not tested for in employment drug screens. You can go on instagram and find people who compete at the NPC or IFBB level in bodybuilding that are clearly on juice (you have to be to be successful) that are Doctors, Nurses, PA's, NP's, Dentists, in just about every profession imaginable. They are illegal, but society has pretty much turned a blind eye, since they aren't mind altering substances and they aren't going to affect your ability to work, drive, or function like a normal person.
Hopefully if someone like RFK Jr gets elected as president they will make a push to remove controlled substance status.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 10:33 am
1
Posted on 4/11/24 at 10:59 am to WaydownSouth
I used to workout with a BRPD officer years ago that was a huge juice monkey. He even gave me his source at the time. Nobody cares anymore
Posted on 4/11/24 at 12:12 pm to lsu777
quote:
just liek if i go to the doctor and want mounjaro...i should be able to get it, no matter how little im overweight. insurance shouldnt cover it, but should be able to get that and any peptide i want. same with hgh
This logic advocates for the free use of every substance, so long as you deem that your interpretation sees that it shouldn't meet the criteria for a controlled substance. Why even have doctors prescribing medicine at that point? It seems like you're arguing that any drug that isn't a controlled substance, you should have free reign to get if you so desire it.
quote:
I am a grown arse adult and me taking steroids does not in any way affect others
I don't see how you're coming to this conclusion. Everything you do in life affects others, especially taking a family of drugs that have long been established to cause considerable mood swings.
The matter is you come on this board and give advice as if you're the arbiter of what drugs/routines are good and which are bad because you've decided to research. It's commendable, but some of the stuff you tell people on here with this matter of fact attitude can be frightening. It's one thing to chime in with your take on weight loss, it's another to tell people to disregard what their doctor says, something I've seen you do multiple times.
We have federal agencies and medical advisory boards for a reason. Are they perfect? No. Are they corrupt? Yeah. Are they better than one libertarian giving advice to people on a message board? Yeah, I'd say so. And honestly, even if you're a doctor, telling people to outright listen to you and tell their doctors xyz is insanity.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 1:00 pm to Odysseus32
quote:
This logic advocates for the free use of every substance, so long as you deem that your interpretation sees that it shouldn't meet the criteria for a controlled substance. Why even have doctors prescribing medicine at that point? It seems like you're arguing that any drug that isn't a controlled substance, you should have free reign to get if you so desire it.
ummm yea. why have doctors? so they can tell me what is wrong and if certain medicines can cause comlications
quote:
I don't see how you're coming to this conclusion. Everything you do in life affects others, especially taking a family of drugs that have long been established to cause considerable mood swings.
have they? you sure? because roid rage is a myth except with tren and maybe 1 or 2 others
quote:
The matter is you come on this board and give advice as if you're the arbiter of what drugs/routines are good and which are bad because you've decided to research. It's commendable, but some of the stuff you tell people on here with this matter of fact attitude can be frightening. It's one thing to chime in with your take on weight loss, it's another to tell people to disregard what their doctor says, something I've seen you do multiple times.
most general doctors are not very smart when it comes to treating most things and you should seek a specialist. and 99% of doctors are dumb AF when it comes to overall preventative health, lifting and diet. most are nothing more than pill pushers at this point. not all but most
quote:
We have federal agencies and medical advisory boards for a reason. Are they perfect? No. Are they corrupt? Yeah. Are they better than one libertarian giving advice to people on a message board? Yeah, I'd say so. And honestly, even if you're a doctor, telling people to outright listen to you and tell their doctors xyz is insanity.
ummm the same boards say they should not be illegal.
and telling someone to not take no as an answer to having blood work done is crazy? i didnt tell him not to listen to the doctor, i told him to tell the doctor he is getting his hormones tested, like it or not
and guess what...im right on that. if you feel you need a certain test done, dont take no as an answer. many doctors are stubborn AF and dont listen and stuck in thier ways. sorry if that offends you like doctors are gods or something
and someone taking steroids does not effect the lifes of others and thinking it does shows complete ignorance on the subject. and yea they should be uncontrolled. didnt say i should be able to just go get whatever script i want but i shouldnt get a felony if i have them either.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 1:05 pm to Odysseus32
oh and i dont trust any federal agency and i have made it very very clear throughout the years that I am a libertarian and believe all drugs should be decriminalized.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 1:21 pm to Odysseus32
quote:
I don't see how you're coming to this conclusion. Everything you do in life affects others, especially taking a family of drugs that have long been established to cause considerable mood swings.
This is a myth. Tren might be the only one that causes mood swings.
quote:
This logic advocates for the free use of every substance, so long as you deem that your interpretation sees that it shouldn't meet the criteria for a controlled substance
There are quite a few other countries that operate like this and they are in better health than the US.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 1:22 pm to lsu777
quote:
believe all drugs should be decriminalized.
I agree with you on most issues on here, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one.
Steroids: No one is going to kill someone else to rob them of their steroids, or for money to buy steroids, unless that person is already mentally ill.
Weed: Again, I don't think anyone will kill someone over an 8th, or $50 to get an 8th because they are sick from withdrawals.
Meth: Meth heads tend to commit other crimes that affect others.
Crack: See meth.
Cocaine: See crack.
So while I do agree that there should be less consequence for illegal possession of drugs, I don't think they should be completely legal. It becomes a blurred line. I don't think it should be an "all or nothing" solution.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 1:51 pm to Homey the Clown
quote:
I agree with you on most issues on here, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one.
so you understand where i am coming from...my believe is that if someone wants it, they will do what they have to, to get it, no matter the legality
i have spoken about this before on here, but my real mom is a pill head. and it didnt matter what the legality was of what she was addicted to, she didnt give a frick. she was going to get it if she wanted it
so maybe my lense is fricked up, i dunno but i just dont see legality stopping someone that wants the drugs. its a waste of time imo
notice i didnt say legal, i said decrimalized and imo the current status builds the black market which encourages the most violent of individuals to rise to the top in controlling these markets cause a whole host of other issues.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 3:40 pm to lsu777
quote:
ummm yea. why have doctors? so they can tell me what is wrong and if certain medicines can cause comlications
You, no. The general public who aren't as well versed as you? Yes. That's why we have people who dedicate their life to study medicine.
quote:
have they? you sure? because roid rage is a myth except with tren and maybe 1 or 2 others
So it's a myth except when it isn't.
quote:
most general doctors are not very smart when it comes to treating most things and you should seek a specialist. and 99% of doctors are dumb AF when it comes to overall preventative health, lifting and diet. most are nothing more than pill pushers at this point. not all but most
This is where I could not disagree more. Doctors have to get an undergraduate degree, go to medical school, undergo several thousands of hours of training, and then do a residency before they are making real cash. You may disagree with their application of medicine, but to call most of them "not very smart" is not something any reasonable person would say and it reduces credibility.
quote:
and telling someone to not take no as an answer to having blood work done is crazy? i didnt tell him not to listen to the doctor, i told him to tell the doctor he is getting his hormones tested, like it or not
and guess what...im right on that. if you feel you need a certain test done, dont take no as an answer. many doctors are stubborn AF and dont listen and stuck in thier ways. sorry if that offends you like doctors are gods or something
To the first part of this, I've seen other posts where you specifically told someone to forget what their doctor said and stay on a specific dose of mounjaro.
And you don't have to take no for an answer. There are plenty of independent labs where you can buy a panel, get the bloodwork done independently, and analyze it yourself. Asking the doctor to do something they don't think is worth it while also then wanting to make them be the ones to prescribe the care is antithetical to your logic.
I actually don't feel like doctors are gods. I get very frustrated with doctors when I go to them and they tell me less than I've already read up on. But we have them for a reason, and that reason is that a lot of people do not understand health, well-being, chemistry, biology, etc. They could read medical studies, but not everyone has 1. the interest or 2. the aptitude. I could very well learn about the theory of electricity. I could probably do it better than a lot of electricians. But when it comes to actually working with electricity, I would very likely kill myself while knowing exactly what to do because I don't have mechanical or electrical inclination. I know my strengths and, more importantly, I know my weaknesses. Some people don't have the strengths in health/medicine/science, and for those people, they should just listen to their doctor. And again, a libertarian telling them that all doctors are idiots, does nothing. And unless you want to go back to medical school and provide their care, they should listen to their medical professional.
A doctor is free to tell you to frick off. You can tell a doctor to frick off. But this blanket of "doctor's don't know anything" and then spreading that message to people coming here looking for help/support is, IMO, reductionist.
This post was edited on 4/11/24 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 4/11/24 at 4:57 pm to chili pup
The vast majority of medical professionals know zilch about steroids and couldn’t tell you the difference between different testosterone esters.
The internet completely changed access to procuring steroids. I can remember ordering dianabol, anadrol, proviron, and Testoviron Depot from Thailand all the way back in 1998 using my Compaq computer. Took about 3 weeks but it all showed up in my mailbox.
My pal who sold steroids biggest customers were police officers and firefighters. He also sold to attorneys, bankers, etc you name it people from all walks of life
I can also remember calling a phone number from the back of a Flex magazine around 1996 offering ‘supplements’ and the guy who picked up was named ‘Dan’. It was Dan Duchaine
Doctors can now prescribe testosterone to just about anyone nowadays which makes it really easy to get and paid for by insurance and you have a prescription. Legally
There’s all kinds of different Underground Labs domestically and overseas which makes steroids more accessible than ever. It used to not be like this you either got the stuff from Mexico or if you were lucky Europe.
I don’t think it would even be fun to use steroids now since there are so many people on them. Used to be just the gym rats were on them now you have 16 year olds taking Tren
The first gym I worked out at as a teen had biohazard dispensers in the bathrooms for needles and it wasn’t uncommon to see guys pinning themselves out in the open. Times have changed.
There’s a huge difference between use and abuse. We all know use for therapeutic reasons is completely safe and can be done for almost eternity without any harm or side effects
I was surprised to find out that most of the big time bodybuilders in the mid to late 1990’s to early 2000’s were just a bunch of junkies who were not only addicted to steroids but things like opiates, painkillers, Nubian, and even heroin.
Pro bodybuilders are the genetic elite of the elite. No matter how much you eat and train or how many steroids or hGH you take you won’t look like them. A lot of those guys could build muscle cutting the grass that’s how good their genetics are. I knew tons of guys blasting grams of test, a gram of deca a gram of equipoise a week 100 mg of diainabol and 100 mg of anadrol and 6ius a day of hGH who were placing 5th in the Mr Georgia competition. It’s genetics not how much you take or train or even eat.
I can see why people use but if you aren’t competing or aren’t a professional athlete, strongman, wrestler, or bodybuilder there’s just no reason to abuse steroids you are pretty much doing it all for nothing.
The internet completely changed access to procuring steroids. I can remember ordering dianabol, anadrol, proviron, and Testoviron Depot from Thailand all the way back in 1998 using my Compaq computer. Took about 3 weeks but it all showed up in my mailbox.
My pal who sold steroids biggest customers were police officers and firefighters. He also sold to attorneys, bankers, etc you name it people from all walks of life
I can also remember calling a phone number from the back of a Flex magazine around 1996 offering ‘supplements’ and the guy who picked up was named ‘Dan’. It was Dan Duchaine
Doctors can now prescribe testosterone to just about anyone nowadays which makes it really easy to get and paid for by insurance and you have a prescription. Legally
There’s all kinds of different Underground Labs domestically and overseas which makes steroids more accessible than ever. It used to not be like this you either got the stuff from Mexico or if you were lucky Europe.
I don’t think it would even be fun to use steroids now since there are so many people on them. Used to be just the gym rats were on them now you have 16 year olds taking Tren
The first gym I worked out at as a teen had biohazard dispensers in the bathrooms for needles and it wasn’t uncommon to see guys pinning themselves out in the open. Times have changed.
There’s a huge difference between use and abuse. We all know use for therapeutic reasons is completely safe and can be done for almost eternity without any harm or side effects
I was surprised to find out that most of the big time bodybuilders in the mid to late 1990’s to early 2000’s were just a bunch of junkies who were not only addicted to steroids but things like opiates, painkillers, Nubian, and even heroin.
Pro bodybuilders are the genetic elite of the elite. No matter how much you eat and train or how many steroids or hGH you take you won’t look like them. A lot of those guys could build muscle cutting the grass that’s how good their genetics are. I knew tons of guys blasting grams of test, a gram of deca a gram of equipoise a week 100 mg of diainabol and 100 mg of anadrol and 6ius a day of hGH who were placing 5th in the Mr Georgia competition. It’s genetics not how much you take or train or even eat.
I can see why people use but if you aren’t competing or aren’t a professional athlete, strongman, wrestler, or bodybuilder there’s just no reason to abuse steroids you are pretty much doing it all for nothing.
Posted on 4/11/24 at 8:44 pm to ronricks
quote:
Pro bodybuilders are the genetic elite of the elite. No matter how much you eat and train or how many steroids or hGH you take you won’t look like them. A lot of those guys could build muscle cutting the grass that’s how good their genetics are. I knew tons of guys blasting grams of test, a gram of deca a gram of equipoise a week 100 mg of diainabol and 100 mg of anadrol and 6ius a day of hGH who were placing 5th in the Mr Georgia competition. It’s genetics not how much you take or train or even eat.
I agree with almost everything you said except for that. I've seen some people go from looking absolutely terrible to winning a pro card in just 3-4 years. Genetics are important, but its not the end all be all. You have to be dialed in on everything 100% of the time. The folks blasting a ton of gear and still looking like shite are probably trying to make up for lacking in other areas or they were getting bad advice on which compounds to use
Posted on 4/11/24 at 9:50 pm to Old Swole
quote:
old swole.
My man!
Posted on 4/12/24 at 3:59 am to WaydownSouth
The ability to put on muscle fast is genetics. Some people are hyper responders to steroids and some are not. You will only go as far as your genetics takes you I don’t care how much gear you are using or how much you are eating. It doesn’t work that way. I had friends that couldn’t gain any quality muscle on 1 gram of test a week for 10 weeks. Had other friends that blew the frick up off of 500 mg test a week. Everyone is different. Everyone is unique. You and I aren’t going to have the same amount of slow or fast twitch muscle fibers we aren’t going to have the same androgen receptors we aren’t going to react the same to whatever training methods we use. At the end of the day it’s genetics. Just like how strong your organs are some people can smoke and drink for 50 years and live to be 80 while others do the same and croak at 60. Not everyone is the same.
Posted on 4/12/24 at 8:21 am to ronricks
quote:
[quote]The ability to put on muscle fast is genetics. Some people are hyper responders to steroids and some are not. You will only go as far as your genetics takes you I don’t care how much gear you are using or how much you are eating
How people respond to steroids differs and the ability to put on muscle quickly is dependent on genetics, yes. Your career in bodybuilding will last much longer if you can pack on size with a smaller amount of PEDs.
But to say pro bodybuilders are the genetic elite of the elite is untrue in my opinion. Nick Walker's legs look absolutely terrible from varicose veins. He is someone that probably didn't have the "genetics" meant for the sport but ran an excessive amount of PEDs until he got where he currently is.
Posted on 4/12/24 at 9:05 am to WaydownSouth
quote:
But to say pro bodybuilders are the genetic elite of the elite is untrue in my opinion.
Most of them are the genetic elite. Hard work only takes you so far.
quote:
Nick Walker
Looks like complete shite and is a walking time bomb waiting to explode.
People that think all you need to do is take a bunch of steroids, hgh, insulin, and peptides and eat and you can be a pro bodybuilder are mistaken. 99% of this forum could try that and I'm betting not a single one would get their pro card. Just like taking a bunch of steroids isn't going to turn anyone on here into a MLB, NBA, or NFL player. It doesn't work that way.
Posted on 4/15/24 at 7:38 am to Odysseus32
just getting to were i could respond to this
no shite???
none of those are approved in the US for human use but when tren was approved in the 70s for human use in france...how many "roid rage" incidents were there?
how many roid rage incidents are there compared to alcohol?
cant have it both ways. either alcohol should be completely banned and made illegal and felony to possess or steroids should be decriminalized. both can be used responsibly and both can be abused
punching symptoms into a computer and writing a script is not being smart in preventative care
are doctors smart people 100% . you dont become a doctor being dumb. just many PCP become lazy because they deal with dumb people all day who many times are looking for pills, making up the symptoms or the symptoms are almost exclusively all mental. they become almost jaded. Atleast in the PCP world
like i said doctors are smart AF as people. If they are actually concentrating and want to solve a problem, again smart AF. specialist are smart AF.
sorry but i have had doctors tell me keto is a weight gaining diet. i have had them tell me lifting weights are dangerous. I have had them tell me testosterone levels of below 300 for a 30 year old man dont matter, have had them tell me being over 20% bodyfat doesnt matter. again not that they are not smart but they are not trained in preventative medicine and living a healthy lifestyle.
yea god forbid i tell someone that is losing weight to not up the dose because that is what elly lilly says to do. god forbid i tell someone to lose the minimal effective dosing while still losing weight because Big pharma says do this and not that.
plenty of doctors, especially pcp, are completely uncomfortable prescribing male hormones even if levels are low. either the doctor wants to treat the issues or fine a new one.
then dont be a doctor if you dont have the interest or aptitude and if you as a patient dont have them things cool, that is why we have doctors but if i go read up on it and know more than you, well you need to refer me to someone.
if the doctor is a good doctor and not just one that punches things in a tablet, i agree 100%.
its like the engineers i work with that only understand the book and what it says. and then they design something on a computer and then are flabbergasted when they go to install and it doesnt work in the field when they have never been to the field to look. same thing.
if as a doctor, dont know an area....send them somewhere else. those are the best doctors, the ones that know their strengths and weaknesses. i love those.
like i said, 99% of doctors dont know shite about male hormones and that is ok so long as they refer them to those that do and that is what i was talking about
i have never said doctors are dumb without context.
specialists are some of the smartest people on earth some are just OK
some PCP are amazing, some suck
its the same as every technical field.
and my libertarian comment has nothing to do with comments about doctors. I was talking my feelings on steroids and pretty much all drugs being legal. but doctor orgs, the FDA, DEA etc all felt steroids should not be controlled nor did they meet any of the requirements to become a scheduled drug. so if you believe they know best, then how come you dont think they do in this case?
quote:
You, no. The general public who aren't as well versed as you? Yes. That's why we have people who dedicate their life to study medicine.
no shite???
quote:
So it's a myth except when it isn't.
none of those are approved in the US for human use but when tren was approved in the 70s for human use in france...how many "roid rage" incidents were there?
how many roid rage incidents are there compared to alcohol?
cant have it both ways. either alcohol should be completely banned and made illegal and felony to possess or steroids should be decriminalized. both can be used responsibly and both can be abused
quote:
This is where I could not disagree more. Doctors have to get an undergraduate degree, go to medical school, undergo several thousands of hours of training, and then do a residency before they are making real cash. You may disagree with their application of medicine, but to call most of them "not very smart" is not something any reasonable person would say and it reduces credibility.
punching symptoms into a computer and writing a script is not being smart in preventative care
are doctors smart people 100% . you dont become a doctor being dumb. just many PCP become lazy because they deal with dumb people all day who many times are looking for pills, making up the symptoms or the symptoms are almost exclusively all mental. they become almost jaded. Atleast in the PCP world
like i said doctors are smart AF as people. If they are actually concentrating and want to solve a problem, again smart AF. specialist are smart AF.
sorry but i have had doctors tell me keto is a weight gaining diet. i have had them tell me lifting weights are dangerous. I have had them tell me testosterone levels of below 300 for a 30 year old man dont matter, have had them tell me being over 20% bodyfat doesnt matter. again not that they are not smart but they are not trained in preventative medicine and living a healthy lifestyle.
quote:
To the first part of this, I've seen other posts where you specifically told someone to forget what their doctor said and stay on a specific dose of mounjaro.
yea god forbid i tell someone that is losing weight to not up the dose because that is what elly lilly says to do. god forbid i tell someone to lose the minimal effective dosing while still losing weight because Big pharma says do this and not that.
quote:
And you don't have to take no for an answer. There are plenty of independent labs where you can buy a panel, get the bloodwork done independently, and analyze it yourself. Asking the doctor to do something they don't think is worth it while also then wanting to make them be the ones to prescribe the care is antithetical to your logic.
plenty of doctors, especially pcp, are completely uncomfortable prescribing male hormones even if levels are low. either the doctor wants to treat the issues or fine a new one.
quote:
I actually don't feel like doctors are gods. I get very frustrated with doctors when I go to them and they tell me less than I've already read up on. But we have them for a reason, and that reason is that a lot of people do not understand health, well-being, chemistry, biology, etc. They could read medical studies, but not everyone has 1. the interest or 2. the aptitude
then dont be a doctor if you dont have the interest or aptitude and if you as a patient dont have them things cool, that is why we have doctors but if i go read up on it and know more than you, well you need to refer me to someone.
quote:
Some people don't have the strengths in health/medicine/science, and for those people, they should just listen to their doctor. And again, a libertarian telling them that all doctors are idiots, does nothing. And unless you want to go back to medical school and provide their care, they should listen to their medical professional.
if the doctor is a good doctor and not just one that punches things in a tablet, i agree 100%.
its like the engineers i work with that only understand the book and what it says. and then they design something on a computer and then are flabbergasted when they go to install and it doesnt work in the field when they have never been to the field to look. same thing.
if as a doctor, dont know an area....send them somewhere else. those are the best doctors, the ones that know their strengths and weaknesses. i love those.
quote:
A doctor is free to tell you to frick off. You can tell a doctor to frick off. But this blanket of "doctor's don't know anything" and then spreading that message to people coming here looking for help/support is, IMO, reductionist.
like i said, 99% of doctors dont know shite about male hormones and that is ok so long as they refer them to those that do and that is what i was talking about
i have never said doctors are dumb without context.
specialists are some of the smartest people on earth some are just OK
some PCP are amazing, some suck
its the same as every technical field.
and my libertarian comment has nothing to do with comments about doctors. I was talking my feelings on steroids and pretty much all drugs being legal. but doctor orgs, the FDA, DEA etc all felt steroids should not be controlled nor did they meet any of the requirements to become a scheduled drug. so if you believe they know best, then how come you dont think they do in this case?
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