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Did Joel make the right decision at the end of last of us?
Posted on 1/10/25 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 1/10/25 at 10:09 pm
Spoilers obviously. I’ve seen this debate a lot and I think it stems from a fundamental misunderstanding about why the game was so felt deeply by many many men (90% of gamers are men go cry). Underneath all its bleak world bending, violence, zombies, etc it’s a story about a fathers love for his daughter. Not to mention the fireflies are shown to be absolutely clowns through the entire game. I wouldn’t trust them to guard a high school basketball game much less make the human race saving vaccine. Joel was right. Ellie deserved to live. I’m glad he killed them all.
Incidentally this misunderstanding Cuckmsn had about what people truly connected with in it stems from him not having even made it. Amy Henning did. Which is how we got part 2
Incidentally this misunderstanding Cuckmsn had about what people truly connected with in it stems from him not having even made it. Amy Henning did. Which is how we got part 2
This post was edited on 1/10/25 at 10:11 pm
6
Posted on 1/11/25 at 1:47 pm to td01241
Joel is good people. Just give him a chance and you’ll see
Posted on 1/12/25 at 8:57 am to td01241
Yes. Who's to say there aren't others similar to Ellie anywhere else in the world? Why did it have to be her and only her with this immunity, and thus the need to die to try and make a vaccine from it?
No one knows what else is going on anywhere else in the world that could be advancing a vaccine. It had already been what, 20+ years of living this way? Why not just live the rest of your days that way at that point, at least until someone somewhere else in the world maybe solves the issue.
No one knows what else is going on anywhere else in the world that could be advancing a vaccine. It had already been what, 20+ years of living this way? Why not just live the rest of your days that way at that point, at least until someone somewhere else in the world maybe solves the issue.
Posted on 1/12/25 at 10:30 am to td01241
I can only think what I would have done
I would have tried the same thing in his place
I would have tried the same thing in his place
Posted on 1/12/25 at 6:25 pm to td01241
Yes Joel 100% made the right decision
Posted on 1/13/25 at 11:38 am to southpawcock
Who’s to say there are others working on a vaccine or that Ellie isn’t the only immune person? We can play that game all day. Point is both were wrong and neither gave Ellie a choice
This post was edited on 1/13/25 at 11:40 am
Posted on 1/14/25 at 11:37 am to dawgfan24348
Maybe part of the message too could be that humanity just wasn't worth saving. Look at the whole Pittsburgh section of the game and the Hunters. Even the shite people that tried to trick Ellie with the deer meat.
Posted on 1/14/25 at 9:56 pm to td01241
I haven't played the game but know the story. The one thing I don't know is about the competence of the Fireflies. But if I lived on a planet that was utterly fricked beyond recognition and a random group said they had to sacrifice the one person I cared about to make a vaccine that would save humanity, I would tell them to kick rocks.
Posted on 1/14/25 at 10:10 pm to td01241
He made the right choice for Joel, and that's really all that matters at that point.
We can't even be sure the fireflies would be capable of distributing the vaccine if they were able to create one (which seems pretty likely)
We can't even be sure the fireflies would be capable of distributing the vaccine if they were able to create one (which seems pretty likely)
Posted on 1/15/25 at 1:33 am to Corinthians420
I think the point here is totally missed. It shouldn’t be did Joel make the right choice it’s neither have Ellie a choice. It’s the reason for the major rift between her and Joel in the second game. This is why Joel is called selfish because he wouldn’t care if Marlene gave her a choice or not. It was about not losing another “daughter”.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 5:41 am to dawgfan24348
It all escalated so quickly I'm not sure Joel was capable of giving Ellie a choice. If he waited he wouldve been overwhelmed by fireflies presumably. His choices were let them kill her or get her out of there alive.
The didn't seem to want Joel's input on that decision either.
The didn't seem to want Joel's input on that decision either.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 1:40 pm to Corinthians420
I was gonna say, Joel wasn't given an opportunity to give Ellie a choice.
Fireflies KO him as he was doing CPR on Ellie, ffs. Next thing we know, they got Ellie under the knife and tell Joel to kick rocks or they'll kill him.
Revisionist history to argue Joel did something against Ellie's wishes. That's what makes Part 2 so stupid. They never address it and just pretend Joel was just as wrong as the Fireflies without explaining how. Maddening.
Fireflies KO him as he was doing CPR on Ellie, ffs. Next thing we know, they got Ellie under the knife and tell Joel to kick rocks or they'll kill him.
Revisionist history to argue Joel did something against Ellie's wishes. That's what makes Part 2 so stupid. They never address it and just pretend Joel was just as wrong as the Fireflies without explaining how. Maddening.
Posted on 1/15/25 at 9:49 pm to The Quiet One
Ellie wasn’t just angry that Joel took that choice from her, she was mad he lied to her for years. Joel even says he would do it all over again given the choice. There was zero chance Joel would let Ellie choose to sacrifice herself.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 4:54 am to Thundercles
quote:
the competence of the Fireflies.
It is actually quite comical how pathetically stupid and inept they come across from literal start to finish. I cant see why that would be their intent (the author) but it was definitely their outcome. The story and moral dilemma at the end works better if the fireflies were some type of morally very dubious (they are that) but very effective operators (they arent this. theyre dullards)
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 4:56 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 7:50 am to dawgfan24348
quote:
Ellie wasn’t just angry that Joel took that choice from her, she was mad he lied to her for years.
That's not what the point of the conversation was up to now. You said it was about choice.
quote:
It shouldn’t be did Joel make the right choice it’s neither (g)ave Ellie a choice
You said it. Please don't move goalposts. But, now that this point has been debunked, yeah, she was also mad because he lied to her.
So, why didn't Joel just tell her? He's in the right.
The fireflies found them. Ellie had drowned. Joel was giving CPR. They KO'd him because they're clowns. He woke up. Marlene says they're gonna kill Ellie and pull her brain from her head without her knowledge or consent. Joel decided they're incompetent monsters, he obviously cares for her and did what he had to do to save her. Easy. He lied so she wouldn't be upset things went south. Whatever. Be mad, Ellie, but you're alive. They didn't give you a choice; they didn't give Joel a choice. It is what it is. The whole premise Part 2 offers is stupid, like a bad TV episode where all the problems are because 2 people didn't have the most basic of conversations any of us have on a daily basis.
quote:
Joel even says he would do it all over again given the choice.
Because any reasonable person would have come to the same conclusion.
quote:
There was zero chance Joel would let Ellie choose to sacrifice herself.
Supposition not supported by facts, but belief. I can't address your faith-based conclusions.
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 7:53 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 8:00 am to td01241
quote:
(they arent this. theyre dullards)
They get wiped in the Boston QZ. Marlene relies on smugglers to get Ellie to the meet point. The Fireflies at the Capitol building are wiped. Marlene loses most of her group escaping Boston and travelling to Salt Lake City. One moron Firefly "scientist" gets bitten by an infected monkey. Fireflies find Joel performing CPR on a young girl and their first and only reaction is to pistol whip him unconscious.
Joel was so wrong to stop them. Clearly, the Fireflies were literal saviors.
Posted on 1/16/25 at 8:06 am to The Quiet One
Theres also the fact Ellie is 14 I believe in the first game? Who is to say she even should be given the agency to make a decision like that, like its clear she couldnt she the fireflies were literally COMPLETE failures at every single thing they do the entire game. Theres even a voice recording you can find in the lab area where the doctor who later got retconed into Abbys dad flat out admits he doubts itll work and its very low chance 
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 8:08 am
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:44 am to td01241
Good point. A 14 yr old with a partial propoganda-driven education, gaslit by both the feds and Fireflies, should totally be given the choice to sacrifice herself under less than auspicious circumstances at best, machinations nobody explained and long-term consequences she hasn't considered.
frick Joel right in the ear. What does he know?
frick Joel right in the ear. What does he know?
Posted on 1/16/25 at 9:55 am to The Quiet One
Joel is the clear hero. Everyone he kills is bad bad bad news. Joel is like an R rated batman who found a cheeky teen kid to take care of.
The real villain this whole time was Neil. Never forget what was the very first thing he chose to do once he slithered his way into having sole control of this franchise? Make a dlc about 14 year old lesbians. Its been pretty gay ever since.
Amy Henning- strong characters and good story
Neil Cuck- gay weak characters larping 2020s sjw shite
I know who I would fire. Naughty dog didnt agree
The real villain this whole time was Neil. Never forget what was the very first thing he chose to do once he slithered his way into having sole control of this franchise? Make a dlc about 14 year old lesbians. Its been pretty gay ever since.
Amy Henning- strong characters and good story
Neil Cuck- gay weak characters larping 2020s sjw shite
I know who I would fire. Naughty dog didnt agree
This post was edited on 1/16/25 at 9:59 am
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