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1
Posted on 7/8/20 at 11:54 pm to GeauxPack81
quote:
Those of you with experience brewing saisons. Any tips for my first?
quote:
My favorite grain bill for saisons is
81% pilsner malt
10% white wheat
5% flaked oats
3% acid malt
Pretty close to what I use but I'll go as high as 20% combined for Oats and Acidulated and I like to add in table sugar.
quote:
If you want to look at Saison Dupont as the archetype, then keep it simple for the grain bill. They use 100 Belgian pilsner, but they also do a linear step mash, so you might want to add a few ounces of melanoidin malt to give it that little extra something if you don't want to commit to the step mash. I do a hochkurz mash with a rest at 147 and 162.
Mash on the lower end if doing a single infusion. 147-149 for 90 minutes.
I dough in really low and then do continuous heat to slowly raise the temp towards 145F while constantly stirring. This takes about an hour and then I'll let it rest before pulling and mashing out.
quote:
There are some blended strains out there with brett or bacteria. Yeast Bay has their farmhouse blend that has lacto with a saison strain, and White Labs has 670 which is saison blended with classic Brett B. The yeast bay strain is a quick turnaround. The 670 is a commitment, but holy hit is it funky and awesome.
I had a house blend that I was really happy with but went with 3724 for my 1st brew back given that I didn't have any active cultures. I'll build up active cultures from here on out and, hopefully, won't be purchasing any yeast in the future. I feel like you are going to get your most unique homebrew with a mixed blend and that will also allow for your brews to change over time.
quote:
2) I do not do open fermentations...yet. Problem with open fermentation is that our climate (Louisiana) is rarely suited for it. Meaning, you'll likely get some nasty critters in your beer if you open ferment. Open fermentation is best done when its at or below freezing. I may try it this winter if we get some predictably cold weather, but it's not often that happens. A quick way of getting some of those microbes from open air fermentation, is making a starter and putting a cheese cloth over one end to keep out insects, and put near an area you think may have good fermentation potential, such as garden/fruits/etc...
I've done open fermentation year round and have never had any issues. If you pitch a strong starter then there likely won't be enough time for undesirables to setup shop. At my old place, I always cooled my wort open in the same spot in the corner of the yard between the garden and the wooden fence. So overtime, I'm sure that I picked up some of the local microbiome. For my new setup, I built a wooden open fermentation cabinet so that over time a local flavor should develop. I've seen some speculation that the spontaneous fermentation that some breweries do isn't driven by the local air but by yeast and bacteria living in the exposed wood inside the breweries.
I feel like a lot of American breweries swing and miss on their saison/farmhouse ales. I've only had a few that truly were interesting but there are a lot more legit options on the market than just 5 years ago.
I just transfered my new batch onto some fresh grapefruit and add dregs from several of my Brett homebrews. This should the first step in building back up my house blend.
Posted on 7/9/20 at 8:24 am to BigPerm30
quote:i havent use idoaho 7 yet, but i used Mandarina Bavaria for all cold side hop additions and it was a very pineappley flavor.
That NEIPA I used a bunch of Idaho 7 and it had a nice tropical taste. I got a lot of pineapple. I’ll definitely be using that again.
Posted on 7/9/20 at 9:28 am to rds dc
quote:
At my old place, I always cooled my wort open in the same spot in the corner of the yard between the garden and the wooden fence.
What was the ambient temp, and how long did you cool? And did you ferment, or was this just cooling down the wort? I would like to try some open fermentation, but i've read too much about the do's don'ts. It could be like everything else in homebrewing. Rules are subjective.
quote:
For my new setup, I built a wooden open fermentation cabinet so that over time a local flavor should develop.
That's pretty neat. You have any pictures of it?
quote:
I've seen some speculation that the spontaneous fermentation that some breweries do isn't driven by the local air but by yeast and bacteria living in the exposed wood inside the breweries.
Both are correct. The ambient air carries the yeast and bacteria. In breweries such as Cantillon (and others) they actually spray wort onto the walls/surfaces to entice the open air microbes to latch onto the brewery surfaces. They aren't introducing any microbes onto the surfaces of the brewery, the open air fermentation does that. They are simply creating an environment rich for wild fermentation and open air fermentation to occur.
quote:
I feel like a lot of American breweries swing and miss on their saison/farmhouse ales. I've only had a few that truly were interesting but there are a lot more legit options on the market than just 5 years ago.
I agree. Too many put "farmhouse" on the label, and i expect some funk and a little acidity. All i get, though, is a saison grist fermented with 3711 or some other clean saison. What i consider the closest to a true farmhouse saison would be Jester King La Petit Prince. Calandro's had a bunch leftover from that new orleans beer dinner/festival a while back (that they since discontinued), and i did my best to buy nearly all of it over the last few months it was still in stock.
quote:
I just transfered my new batch onto some fresh grapefruit and add dregs from several of my Brett homebrews. This should the first step in building back up my house blend.
Are you in BR? I'd like for you to try some of my mixed ferm beers.This post was edited on 7/9/20 at 9:34 am
Posted on 7/14/20 at 7:59 am to BugAC
A couple weeks ago, the topic of adding coffee to beer and the preferred method was discussed. I just read an article on scottjanish.com (the hops guy) and i may be trying this when temperatures cool off.
LINK
And in those posts from a few weeks ago, i was curious if grinding the beans prior to "dry beaning" would lead to more pronounced flavors. It made sense to me, that it would, considering that's how we extract the flavors when making coffee at home.
Summary:
- Combination of cold brew and dry beaning your beer could lead to more flavor and aroma. Cold brew seems to give more flavor in the beer while dry beaning gives more aroma.
- Same day roast coffee will have greater aroma/flavor than week old coffee
- Adding whole beans, alone, is not a great way of extracting coffee flavors. Suggests starting with 25/75 coarse grind to whole beans and experimenting with ratios.
- Medium roast tends to give a more pleasant coffee aroma. Dark roast can become too acrid.
- In making coffee beers, allow the roastiness of the beer to come from the coffee, not the malt. Too much dark malts with the combination of coffee could lead to a burnt popcorn type acridness.
I think, in the future, i may try a combination of methods. I'll probably use the base recipe in the article. For the coffee, i'll pick one with fruity descriptors and try and get some same day roasts from Cafeciteaux. For the coffee additions, i'll do 1 oz. cold brew added before racking to keg. I'll add .25 oz coarse ground beans, and .75 oz. of whole beans while cold crashing and let sit for a day before kegging.
LINK
quote:
Cold Brew vs. Dry Bean
16 hours of cold brew extraction is where the flavors seem to peak, so that’s the time frame we shot for both in this experiment and with the Bangun. For a 5-gallon batch, we used 4 ounces of coffee (coarsely ground in 1,200 mL water) for the cold brew beer and 2 ounces for 48 hours of contact time for the dry bean beer (dry beaning is essentially like dry hopping but with whole coffee beans).
Results: The difference between the cold brew and dry beaned beer were fairly obvious to me. The cold brew beer had a much fainter coffee nose, but the coffee flavor was where it shined. The dry bean was the opposite, the aroma was big with a robust fruity coffee punch, but there was much less saturated coffee flavor. Just like how large whirlpool hop additions can help provide hop saturated flavor, it seems cold brew infusion helps to provide a coffee saturated flavor, but with less of the coffee shop aroma most might expect. The results inspired us to combine both methods in Bangun to try and get the best of both worlds.
quote:
Same Day Roast vs. 1 Week After
Results: Tasting the beers blind confirmed our hypothesis. The coffee that was roasted and submerged in the beer the same day had a strong fresh coffee flavor that was super dark chocolate forward with a fun nutty edge. The beer that was roasted a week prior was noticeably different; here the aroma was much less rich and robust. There was a slight peppery note to the week-old roast, which was detected by many at the tasting. However, people’s opinions on which beer they liked more were split. I preferred the same day roast; to me, it had a stronger freshly brewed coffee flavor.
And in those posts from a few weeks ago, i was curious if grinding the beans prior to "dry beaning" would lead to more pronounced flavors. It made sense to me, that it would, considering that's how we extract the flavors when making coffee at home.
quote:
Tim suggests that adding whole coffee beans alone is a very poor way to extract coffee flavor into beer. In his experience, adding freshly grounded coffee to beer (in a dry hop-like fashion) resulted in a nice coffee flavor that was balanced and slightly sweet. Combining my experience with Tim’s advice, I wonder if adding coarsely ground fresh coffee to beer post-fermentation along with same day roast whole beans might be a great way to get both fresh coffee aroma (whole beans) and flavor (coarse grinds). This could be an alternative approach to incorporating cold brew along with whole beans. I’d suggest starting with approximately 25% coarse grinds and 75% whole beans and taste the beer multiple times a day and be ready to keg or bottle the beer as soon as the coffee flavor is where you want it to be. For a 5-gallon batch, this could look something like 2 ounces (56 grams) of whole beans and .5 ounces (14 grams) coarse ground coffee, likely for 24-48 hours of contact with the beer.
Summary:
- Combination of cold brew and dry beaning your beer could lead to more flavor and aroma. Cold brew seems to give more flavor in the beer while dry beaning gives more aroma.
- Same day roast coffee will have greater aroma/flavor than week old coffee
- Adding whole beans, alone, is not a great way of extracting coffee flavors. Suggests starting with 25/75 coarse grind to whole beans and experimenting with ratios.
- Medium roast tends to give a more pleasant coffee aroma. Dark roast can become too acrid.
- In making coffee beers, allow the roastiness of the beer to come from the coffee, not the malt. Too much dark malts with the combination of coffee could lead to a burnt popcorn type acridness.
I think, in the future, i may try a combination of methods. I'll probably use the base recipe in the article. For the coffee, i'll pick one with fruity descriptors and try and get some same day roasts from Cafeciteaux. For the coffee additions, i'll do 1 oz. cold brew added before racking to keg. I'll add .25 oz coarse ground beans, and .75 oz. of whole beans while cold crashing and let sit for a day before kegging.
Posted on 7/14/20 at 12:49 pm to BugAC
Good info. Got my kegging equipment set up. Brewing a shandy kit that I picked up from AiH. I got the omega west coast yeast with the intention of building a big starter and pitching half of it so I can have a house yeast of sorts. I ordered it with an ice pack and it arrived in 2 days, but it arrived warm/room temp with the ice pack completely melted. Think it's still okay? Do you guys just not order liquid yeast during the summer?
Posted on 7/14/20 at 1:27 pm to puffulufogous
quote:
but it arrived warm/room temp with the ice pack completely melted. Think it's still okay? Do you guys just not order liquid yeast during the summer?
Should be alright. Just pitch in your starter and see if it starts fermenting.
I've had it shipped before. Don't recall ever having any issues.
Posted on 7/15/20 at 3:29 pm to CarRamrod
So, i've been rethinking my ideas for electric. I was going to get the SS brewtech 1 V ebrewing system. But after seeing a few reviews about having to completely recalibrate your system after every brew, and that the heating element doesn't seem to shut off, i may switch gears.
Blichmann came out with the Brewcommander. This paired with a boilermaker outfitted for electric, may be the ideal choice. For roughly the same price ($100 more), i get 15 gallon kettle, triclamp valves, brewvision temperature display, hopblocker, whirlpool fitting, etc..
LINK
The brewtech system is only 10 gallons, has a digital temp display, and comes with a trub dam and is only $100 cheaper.
Brewtech
Blichmann came out with the Brewcommander. This paired with a boilermaker outfitted for electric, may be the ideal choice. For roughly the same price ($100 more), i get 15 gallon kettle, triclamp valves, brewvision temperature display, hopblocker, whirlpool fitting, etc..
LINK
The brewtech system is only 10 gallons, has a digital temp display, and comes with a trub dam and is only $100 cheaper.
Brewtech
Posted on 7/15/20 at 6:46 pm to BugAC
Im getting to the point where I can start putting my pots together. Probably this weekend. I need to drill and install the triclamp flanges. I want to get at least my Mash tun done because i can use my Rims system.
Posted on 7/16/20 at 7:18 am to BugAC
That Blichman setup is bad arse. I regret buying a grainfather. I bought it last year and it seems like there are a lot better options out there today. Are you going to use the Kettle as an all in one system?
Posted on 7/16/20 at 7:43 am to BigPerm30
quote:
That Blichman setup is bad arse. I regret buying a grainfather. I bought it last year and it seems like there are a lot better options out there today. Are you going to use the Kettle as an all in one system?
Not right now. I enjoy the 3 vessel system too much to want to think about doing BIAB system. I've been doing it this way since i started 9 years ago, so maybe it's just stubbornness. I also just bought that InfuSsion mash tun from SS Brewtech like 2 years ago. It would feel like a waste to not use it.
And yeah, i'm leaning towards that Blichmann setup. For one, Blichmann is battle proven time and time again, and as another poster on another site stated, blichmann isn't going anywhere. So if your heating element goes out, you know they'll still be around. SS Brewtech doesn't have the longevity blichmann does. Also, with the blichmann setup, i get a 15 gallon kettle, the hopblocker, a digital/wireless thermometer, a whirlpool system attachment and i'm only paying $100 more than the SS Brewtech system which is only a 10 gallon kettle, and has a trub dam. So the attachments added and the upsized kettle well makeup for the $100 difference.
And, FWIW, this guy said he could build me a BIAB system like he uses. It's custom. I won't take him up on it because i'm not going BIAB, but his setup is pretty slick.
LINK
This post was edited on 7/16/20 at 7:45 am
Posted on 7/16/20 at 7:51 am to BugAC
That guy has an awesome set up. I wish I had a dedicated room like that. Are you going with 120 or 240?
Posted on 7/16/20 at 7:54 am to BugAC
Posted on 7/16/20 at 7:54 am to BigPerm30
quote:
That guy has an awesome set up. I wish I had a dedicated room like that. Are you going with 120 or 240?
When we built our house, i had the contractor put a 240 in the garage with a future electric system in mind. The only thing i don't have in my garage that i would need, is a sink.
Posted on 7/16/20 at 9:02 am to BugAC
Anybody here run an Anvil Foundry system? I currently use a 3 tier system but am moving and due to space constraints am considering selling it off and purchasing the electronic foundry system. I no longer make high ABV beers so the 16 lb grain capacity isn't an issue. I usually brew kolschs and american lagers nowadays.
Posted on 7/16/20 at 9:32 am to BugAC
quote:30 amp or 50?
i had the contractor put a 240 in the garage
Posted on 7/16/20 at 9:38 am to Loup
I don’t have the foundry but I have a grainfather which is very similar. It’s nice due to the small footprint and ease of cleaning. If you want a higher ABV beer just do a 3.5 gallon batch.
Posted on 7/16/20 at 10:33 am to BigPerm30
quote:
I don’t have the foundry but I have a grainfather which is very similar. It’s nice due to the small footprint and ease of cleaning. If you want a higher ABV beer just do a 3.5 gallon batch.
That'd be my plan. I was shocked when I saw the price. I didn't realize they were sub $500. Wouldn't be that hard to explain the purchase to the ole lady.
Posted on 7/16/20 at 10:36 am to CarRamrod
quote:
30 amp or 50?
30
Posted on 7/16/20 at 10:51 am to BugAC
I have 30a 240v and its fine for my ebiab setup. Just make sure it has a gfi breaker.
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