re: Homebrewing Thread: Volume II

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Brett lacks a lot of glycerol production, so it feels different as well as has different yeast flavor compared to sacch when they're used as the only yeast.

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That’s what I was trying to remember. Anyway, I made a 3711/Brett starter for my saison I’m brewing tomorrow. Using the L’Internationale recipe but may change up some of the hops with what I have in my freezer. Still debating.

OG is planned to be 1.042, mashing in at 1.047. I want this puppy to be bone dry. Hops called for in the recipe I may sub are Hallertau Blanc and Motueka. Was going to sub Medusa for Motueka and was thinking of subbing citra for the blanc, but I may keep the blanc.

4 days and already done? What was the FG?

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What was the FG?

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OG was 1.051 and FG was 1.012.

It went from OG down to 1.013 in 72 hours.

I am interested in trying HotHead next, which is supposed to be extremely clean.

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creates a very dry beer without any of the peppery, clove phenolics associated with saisons and Belgian ales

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Where's the fun in that?!

A guy in our home brew club somehow ended up with a case of Westvleteren 12 and he's selling bottles at next week's meeting. I've had it once before but I'm going to take advantage of this offer. It's a pretty good beer.

I remember when they were selling that for $100/12 oz bottle. Wonder what the going rate is now on it.

Currently getting my strike water up to temps utilizing the hot rod heat stick. Almost there. My Brett/3711 starter is a beast. Might need a blowoff tube tonight.

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Westvleteren 12

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I've been lucky enough to have it several times and this is what I've learned. Many places in belgium and amsterdam will slowly pour the beer in a glass and then pour the yeast sediment in a separate "shot glass". I've found that if I mix the sediment back into the beer it really raises the complexity of the beer and I prefer it this way. So I would pour half the beer, swirl the bottle and pour the rest to get the full flavor. I know this is contrary to what we've been taught about leaving yeast sediment in the bottle but give it a try.

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Going to try a kettle sour with BB Sour Weapon L. Can someone walk me through this? I’m completely new to brewing a sour.

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Not a problem, i've used the same strand a couple times. Here is my process for kettle sours.

Brew as you normally would do, through the mash. Once you have your wort in the pot, i usually bring the pot up to boil for about 15 minutes to pasteurize the wort (i like starting with a blank canvas), and cause the proteins to fall out. Once boiled, begin cooling down your wort. Your goal is around 90-98 degrees. Once you reach this temp (i typically employ my wort chiller and then have to put it back on the burner to stabilize the temp a bit) you will want to pre-acidify your wort to 4.4 pH. I use 88% lactic acid. I typically use about 1/2 tsp of lactic acid at a time until i hit my mark. Just add 1/2 tsp, stir your pot. Add 1/2 tsp, stir your pot, etc... Usually it's takes about 3 or 4 1/2 tsp depending on your water/grain bill, etc...
Once you are pre-acidified, check your temp. You may need to bring it back up to the 98ish temp range. Once done, pitch your bugs. I then put a blanket of CO2 in the brewpot, but the lid on, and tape down the sides. I have a multi tap manifold with a separate outlet just for purging beers.
Once everything is secured, i usually put my brewpot in my fermenting freezer, but don't plug it in. I figure the freezer has enough insulation to maintain temps long enough for my intended purpose.
Usually, it takes me about 12-18 hours before my beer is acidified to my liking. I usually shoot for a pH of about 3.4. Thing about pH, it's not like a hydrometer reading. Each tenth of a drop in pH increases the acidity 10 times.

Anyway, it really isn't hard. I understand you may not have a way to purge the top of your pot. I'd say, just keep the pot sealed and you should be good. Oxygen is the enemy to lactic acid bacteria. Too much O2 and you will get acetic acid and/or other unwanted things. Acetic is more akin to vinegar and is not something you really want. However, for your purposes, i'm not sure if 12-24 hours is a long enough time to negatively impact your beer. I've always had access to CO2 to purge, so this is just my opinion.

Anyway, when you are happy with the acidity level, i typically bring the pot back up to a boil for another 10 minutes or so to pasteurize the wort (kill off the bugs). Then i cool down, and finish off the brew process like normal (transfer to carboy, pitch yeast).

One additional tip, use an aggressive yeast strain to ferment the beer. Some strains go into acid shock and won't ferment a highly acidic beer. So for this, you can use either a good brett strain and do a primary brett fermentation, or i've also had success with WLP644, Sach Brett Trois (formally thought of as a brett strain, but actually a sach strain). I've also heard WY3711 works pretty good as well.

Oh, and i learned how to kettle sour from milk the funk wiki page. This will give you more information.

LINK

And this is the recipe i often used for my kettle soured gose's.

Milk the Funk Gose (actually read this first before reading the above link)

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Bug, what is your opinion on not having a full boil with pre and post pasteurization vs full boiling before souring vs full boiling after souring? Obviously you need a pasteurization step before souring, but I mean more in terms of incorporating a traditional boil into the brewing process.

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It's all about pasteurization for me. Rather than means coming up to a rolling boil for 10-15 minutes, or maintaining above 170/180 for 20-30 minutes. I'm just trying to kill off whatever is living. Pre souring, i like to boil to give myself a blank slate. I don't want anything else in the beer but what i introduce. Also, i want to reduce some of the proteins in the beer. Post-souring, i want to kill all the microbes because I keg my quick sours, and i want my keg lines to be "clean" of LAB's.

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I’ve made kettle sours without hops entirely that I think have been fantastic. I know many/most LAB’s are hop intolerant and won’t sour if too many IBU’s are present (5 or so is what I’ve read.)

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Most of my kettle sours do not have any hops. If they do, it's maybe a total of 3-5 IBU's, but i don't think that really does anything. Most lacto strains are hop tolerant up to a point. Pedio is very hop intolerant, and will not acidify past a certain IBU range. I say that, but i've also minimally hopped a kettle sour (5-8 IBUs) with Bootlegs sour weapon P, which is a pedio strain that quick sours, and they all came out great. I actually prefer sour weapon P to L. But back to hops, going forward, i'll probably start upping my IBU's a bit, 8ish range, a) to test my limits and B) to restrain some acidity. My last kettle sour finished with a pH of 3.8 and i really liked it. Not too sour, but enough to showcase the acidity without being too puckering. I'm doing the same for my long aged mixed fermentation sours. Adding more hops in the front end to dial back the acidity. Took a couple years, but i learned that no hops makes the beer VERY ACIDIC. Some of my earlier mixed ferm sours were around a 3.12 pH and those were hard to drink. I've been combatting some of that with blending with new beer. Again this is for long aged sours, not kettle sours.

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What about hops? What amount should I use?

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minimal. You can do no hops, or just follow the MTF gose recipe, 8 IBU's worth. I'd go the 8 IBU worth to start off.