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Sports Betting Sites and Taxes...
Posted on 6/10/22 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 6/10/22 at 12:16 pm
Hi. I just do DraftKings for small amounts (and maybe I should have paid attention to this issue more there as well).
My son has done more on different sites. Maybe a couple of thousand in bets a year. I don't recall the exact amount, but for illustration purposes, let's say winnings were $2k and losses were $5k on the site. I'd always assumed if you didn't make money there was no gain.
Apparently not. Accountant told him/us that unless you itemize you can't net losses against gains. You have to report gains as income.
Net impact is he should have gotten a form from the site and paid an additional amount of taxes.
Anyone run into this before? Just doesn't seem logical.
My son has done more on different sites. Maybe a couple of thousand in bets a year. I don't recall the exact amount, but for illustration purposes, let's say winnings were $2k and losses were $5k on the site. I'd always assumed if you didn't make money there was no gain.
Apparently not. Accountant told him/us that unless you itemize you can't net losses against gains. You have to report gains as income.
Net impact is he should have gotten a form from the site and paid an additional amount of taxes.
Anyone run into this before? Just doesn't seem logical.
Posted on 6/10/22 at 5:09 pm to Nole Man
I had the exact same question last year.
They will not send you a tax form unless a bet meets the narrow criteria of winning over $600 and 300 times the amount of the bet.
I spent all year worrying about this and at the end I just got a win/loss statement from each of the sites, some which I had to specifically request. If I did it by the “book” as you describe, not only would I owe thousands, I would get an additional penalty for not withholding enough which makes no sense at all.
I ended up netting my win/loss statements as I did my own taxes on Tax Slayer and reporting it as additional income which is probably even more than I “needed” to do considering the IRS got nothing from the betting sites. I’d imagine your audit risk would be nearly zero and the law is ambiguous enough (tons of debate about this) that I don’t foresee legal issues, but don’t hold me to that and I should put a disclaimer that this is not legal advice.
They will not send you a tax form unless a bet meets the narrow criteria of winning over $600 and 300 times the amount of the bet.
I spent all year worrying about this and at the end I just got a win/loss statement from each of the sites, some which I had to specifically request. If I did it by the “book” as you describe, not only would I owe thousands, I would get an additional penalty for not withholding enough which makes no sense at all.
I ended up netting my win/loss statements as I did my own taxes on Tax Slayer and reporting it as additional income which is probably even more than I “needed” to do considering the IRS got nothing from the betting sites. I’d imagine your audit risk would be nearly zero and the law is ambiguous enough (tons of debate about this) that I don’t foresee legal issues, but don’t hold me to that and I should put a disclaimer that this is not legal advice.
This post was edited on 6/10/22 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 6/11/22 at 12:48 am to Nole Man
might be different state-by-state as well?
Alabama only allows daily fantasy sports. No sportsbook (not yet anyway).
I know that part of the deal that got the fantasy sports part back up and going was that the state would withhold a certain amount, but you'd have to win a substantial amount to make that happen.
the most i won in a big tournament last year was $125 and I got all of that.
I think you get deducted if you win over $800 at a time but not sure.
Not sure about net winnings from several contests/bets like you are talking about.
I don't think I'll ever have that problem though.
bwhahahahahaha
Alabama only allows daily fantasy sports. No sportsbook (not yet anyway).
I know that part of the deal that got the fantasy sports part back up and going was that the state would withhold a certain amount, but you'd have to win a substantial amount to make that happen.
the most i won in a big tournament last year was $125 and I got all of that.
I think you get deducted if you win over $800 at a time but not sure.
Not sure about net winnings from several contests/bets like you are talking about.
quote:
but for illustration purposes, let's say winnings were $2k and losses were $5k on the site. I'd always assumed if you didn't make money there was no gain.
Apparently not. Accountant told him/us that unless you itemize you can't net losses against gains. You have to report gains as income.
Net impact is he should have gotten a form from the site and paid an additional amount of taxes.
Anyone run into this before? Just doesn't seem logical.
I don't think I'll ever have that problem though.
bwhahahahahaha
Posted on 6/11/22 at 9:04 am to Nole Man
Are these betting sites obligated to send you the tax information?
Posted on 6/11/22 at 10:39 am to Nole Man
Only way around it, is going to the casino.
Posted on 6/11/22 at 7:22 pm to VermilionTiger
No and they won’t unless you win a wager that’s 300 times the bet and worth over 600 dollars. I was thousands up on a couple of sites in 2021 and got nothing, not even able to pull up tax forms online. All I can pull up is a win-loss statement.
This post was edited on 6/11/22 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 6/11/22 at 9:27 pm to TheWalrus
Well I won a couple thousand alone off of free bets with the Bengals in the AFC championship game 
Posted on 6/12/22 at 5:16 pm to Nole Man
Found these articles...
Link 1
Link 2
Gamblers need to consider how much they’ve lost throughout the year as well. if they were profitable then they will have to pay taxes. If they broke even or lost money they won’t end up paying any taxes, but are still expected to claim the winnings on their taxes to remain in compliance with the IRS.
I read these articles and I still swear it looks like you pay taxes on the PROFITS. Taking net losses is something else and you can deduct a portion of them IF you itemize. Looks like two different calculations to me.
This post was edited on 6/12/22 at 5:27 pm
Posted on 6/12/22 at 5:26 pm to TheWalrus
quote:quote:
Are these betting sites obligated to send you the tax information?
quote:
No and they won’t unless you win a wager that’s 300 times the bet and worth over 600 dollars. I
The research i did said the same thing. Saw a tax lawyer on youtube explain it. Basically unless you hit a huge longshot prop bet or parlay they wont send the W2-G out at years end.
Hope he's right otherwise im f'd
here watch this
This post was edited on 6/12/22 at 5:35 pm
Posted on 6/12/22 at 5:45 pm to Honkus
My question is "them sending it" vs. whatever, you're responsible for reporting it anyway. Then, how do you report it? Still seems like the tax calculation nets profits/losses, then it may depend on the State you live in for the actual rate? Like maybe Tennessee here is 20%? And net losses can be used up to $5k IF you can itemize.
So confusing.
So confusing.
Posted on 6/12/22 at 7:51 pm to Nole Man
If I’m reading this correctly….
If they make regular Joe blows report any “winnings” as income and require “us” to pay taxes even if we lost overall for the year, betting outlet’s like DK and FD would drive away their customers.
If they make regular Joe blows report any “winnings” as income and require “us” to pay taxes even if we lost overall for the year, betting outlet’s like DK and FD would drive away their customers.
This post was edited on 6/13/22 at 11:33 am
Posted on 6/12/22 at 10:36 pm to Honkus
I made about $6000 profit each on draftkings and Caesars last year and got nothing. If I go to their apps and click on tax forms, it says none are available for me. Their win/loss statements didn’t match my profit/loss calculations, I think free bet winnings may have played into that but they said I won less money than I actually did.
If you go by the way the law is written, some say you need to report every bet won as income and every bet lost as a deduction. I am a high volume promo hunter, so in 2021 I’d have to report like $300,000 in winnings and deduct $290,000 as losses. That would put me in a higher tax bracket. It makes absolutely no sense logically.
As ambiguous as the law is, even tax accountants and lawyers have trouble interpreting it, I think it’s ok to use some logic and pay taxes on net profits if you don’t have any formal tax forms. Otherwise no one would ever bet online ever.
If you go by the way the law is written, some say you need to report every bet won as income and every bet lost as a deduction. I am a high volume promo hunter, so in 2021 I’d have to report like $300,000 in winnings and deduct $290,000 as losses. That would put me in a higher tax bracket. It makes absolutely no sense logically.
As ambiguous as the law is, even tax accountants and lawyers have trouble interpreting it, I think it’s ok to use some logic and pay taxes on net profits if you don’t have any formal tax forms. Otherwise no one would ever bet online ever.
This post was edited on 6/12/22 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 6/13/22 at 8:42 am to TheWalrus
Here's where I think we collectively need to do some homework. And thanks to Honkus for sharing this video. What I gleaned...
LINK
Starts at 7:16
Ruling: Park v. Commissioner
LINK
8:16: IRS is only matching records. Pay taxes on your net winnings. Attach a note to your return explaining to the IRS the difference. Form 8275. Not what the paper shows. Explain why you did this to the IRS.
Example:
$1,200 winnings
$600 Bet
Taxes paid on $600.
What is the purpose of form 8275?
Purpose of Form Form 8275 is used by taxpayers and tax return preparers to disclose items or positions, except those taken contrary to a regulation, that are not otherwise adequately disclosed on a tax return to avoid certain penalties
LINK
LINK
Starts at 7:16
Ruling: Park v. Commissioner
LINK
8:16: IRS is only matching records. Pay taxes on your net winnings. Attach a note to your return explaining to the IRS the difference. Form 8275. Not what the paper shows. Explain why you did this to the IRS.
Example:
$1,200 winnings
$600 Bet
Taxes paid on $600.
What is the purpose of form 8275?
Purpose of Form Form 8275 is used by taxpayers and tax return preparers to disclose items or positions, except those taken contrary to a regulation, that are not otherwise adequately disclosed on a tax return to avoid certain penalties
LINK
Posted on 6/13/22 at 12:12 pm to Nole Man
And what if they don't send you the tax form? If they don't send YOU a tax form, then they didn't send the IRS one either. Or?
Posted on 6/13/22 at 1:48 pm to Nole Man
Honestly if they dont send a W2-G i dont know how they expect you to report.
It would be like reporting W2 wages w/o a W2 from your employer.
And thats my story and im sticking to it.
It would be like reporting W2 wages w/o a W2 from your employer.
And thats my story and im sticking to it.
Posted on 6/14/22 at 11:31 pm to TheWalrus
quote:
If you go by the way the law is written, some say you need to report every bet won as income and every bet lost as a deduction. I am a high volume promo hunter, so in 2021 I’d have to report like $300,000 in winnings and deduct $290,000 as losses. That would put me in a higher tax bracket. It makes absolutely no sense logically.
Disclaimer: Not a tax expert, and this is not tax advice…
It sounds like you should be reporting this activity as a side business with a profit of 10k
The “reporting gambling winnings as income and itemizing losses as a deduction” is for gambling as a hobby. Even if not bonus hunting with 6 figure revenue, betting consistently year over year with the intent to turn a profit should meet the criteria for gambling as a business
I get why y’all aren’t reporting. Just saying if you were to change your minds and report, not sure gambling income on the 1040 is the best/correct way to do it.
Posted on 6/15/22 at 4:20 am to DallasTiger45
I worked in a casino many years ago. We were taught that if someone walked away with say $25k in Cheques (chips), and tried to cash out anything over $10k, then they were required to fill out all tax information. If the person was savvy enough to cash out on multiple occasions under $9,999 each time, they were ok, and the casino didn’t require you to fill out any tax forms.
This post was edited on 6/15/22 at 7:32 am
Posted on 6/15/22 at 10:34 am to Gtothemoney
Thanks!
Also, got some pretty good advice from a person I know. Not a CPA, but very well versed in taxes.
Accounting was my major but I went a different direction with my career. A few tax accounting classes were part of the curriculum 20+ years ago. I am no expert and do not take my advice over your CPA. I didn't watch the whole video but it sounds like the Form 8275 is a way to get around itemizing. If all the bets were made on the same site I would printout the betting history that year and attach it to the 8275 as proof of losses. Any money that was deducted from winnings for taxes will be reflected similar to how deductions from a paycheck are done. If you owe elsewhere the deduction will apply towards that and if you don't owe you should get that money refunded. Good luck!
I think for those of us that are casual betters on sites like DK, that's some sagely advice. In my case, DK's never loaded a tax form online. Of course, my betting's in the hundreds. But you can download history and net winnings vs. the bets to net it out.
I think the other thing I've learned is the risk of audit for this anyway is virtually nil. It might come up in an audit for other things. And, always keep track of this stuff either way!
Also, got some pretty good advice from a person I know. Not a CPA, but very well versed in taxes.
Accounting was my major but I went a different direction with my career. A few tax accounting classes were part of the curriculum 20+ years ago. I am no expert and do not take my advice over your CPA. I didn't watch the whole video but it sounds like the Form 8275 is a way to get around itemizing. If all the bets were made on the same site I would printout the betting history that year and attach it to the 8275 as proof of losses. Any money that was deducted from winnings for taxes will be reflected similar to how deductions from a paycheck are done. If you owe elsewhere the deduction will apply towards that and if you don't owe you should get that money refunded. Good luck!
I think for those of us that are casual betters on sites like DK, that's some sagely advice. In my case, DK's never loaded a tax form online. Of course, my betting's in the hundreds. But you can download history and net winnings vs. the bets to net it out.
I think the other thing I've learned is the risk of audit for this anyway is virtually nil. It might come up in an audit for other things. And, always keep track of this stuff either way!
Posted on 6/15/22 at 8:18 pm to Honkus
Geez what a headache. I’ve never reported bet income before
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