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Fantasy Statistics "quiz" - Championship game and your up by 15

Posted on 11/19/16 at 6:37 pm
Posted by tigersint
Lafayette
Member since Nov 2012
3580 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 6:37 pm
Its Monday night and yall both have 1 player left to play. Its the Patriots vs the Broncos on Monday night football. You have Tom Brady and your opponent had D Thomas left to play. Simian is on waivers. What do you do? Start Brady or start Simian, and why?

Geaux
This post was edited on 11/19/16 at 6:38 pm
Posted by jpggpj
Chair
Member since Oct 2005
4047 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 6:56 pm to
I start Brady because I'm up by 15 and I'm not a fricking moron.
Posted by bringonusc
Katy, TX
Member since Aug 2007
3802 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 6:57 pm to
Start Simian because he basically covers anything DT88 does.
Posted by TheWalrus
Land of the Hogs
Member since Dec 2012
48451 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 7:00 pm to
Are you trying to make the case that you should start Siemian because he would counteract Thomas' points?
Posted by bbeck
Member since Dec 2011
15443 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 7:09 pm to
This type thinking is how fantasy football championships are lost
Posted by tigersint
Lafayette
Member since Nov 2012
3580 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 7:12 pm to
Well, I actually think that statistically you have better odds to win by playing Siemian.

You are basically betting that:



A.) Siemian has better odds to outscore Brady

Than

B.) DT88 outscores Siemian by 15+


By playing Siemian you have a guranteed statline that DT88 needs to get to beat you by 15+ due to Simian getting points for all of DTs points.

By playing Brady the statline that DT88 needs to beat you becomes unknown, and it could also mean that he will need less points to beat you than if you had played Siemian.

So i would say that by playing Siemian you would be playing th odds.



In theory you are reducing the variance (luck) that your oponent miracuously beats you, and this late in the game all that he realy has left is luck.
This post was edited on 11/20/16 at 10:06 am
Posted by TexasTiger6777
Surrounded by Longhorns and Aggies
Member since Jan 2008
3149 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 7:27 pm to
I play Brady and wax my opponent by 35 points and enjoy my winnings and bragging rights.

#nomercy
Posted by LSU999
Member since Nov 2012
9265 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 7:51 pm to
What if Siemian gets knocked out the game or DT88 runs a reverse for a TD.

Those aren't unrealistic things that could happen.

I would play Brady
Posted by tigersint
Lafayette
Member since Nov 2012
3580 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 7:59 pm to
(Roughly) same odds that Brady gets knocked out of the game as Siemian. So that part is irrelevant
Posted by Vicks Kennel Club
29-24 #BlewDat
Member since Dec 2010
31266 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 8:04 pm to
And then Siemian's shoulder injury acts up and leaves early. Always attempt to maximize your points.
Posted by tigersint
Lafayette
Member since Nov 2012
3580 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 8:09 pm to
Or brady gets a suspension at halftime
Posted by Pnels08
Member since Jul 2014
10682 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 9:09 pm to
I'm just saying brady most likely ourscores semian every week. Now if it was between semian and someone like Palmer or Eli than I can see your point.
Posted by mattgr1983
Austin, Tx
Member since Oct 2012
2434 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 9:53 pm to
I am playing Simian here. There is almost no way it isn't mathematically correct.

If a throwing TD is 6 points then it is even more of a no brainer.
Posted by Byron Bojangles III
Member since Nov 2012
52897 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 10:22 pm to
PPR? Because Simien can have a shite game but DT88 can go for like 12/150 without a TD
Posted by tigersint
Lafayette
Member since Nov 2012
3580 posts
Posted on 11/19/16 at 10:56 pm to
Standard. PPR would be a little bit harder of a choice due to the WR getting points while Siemian doesnt.


But as someone stated above, Brady almost always outscores Siemian. However, going into the night you have ZERO idea whether or not Brady outscores Siemian.

Benching Brady is the correct move if Siemian outscoring Brady has a higher percentage of happening than DT out scoring Siemian by 15.


There is a much higher chance that Siemian will outscore Brady, so the correct move here mathematically is to start Siemian.

Posted by rockchlkjayhku11
Cincinnati, OH
Member since Aug 2006
36821 posts
Posted on 11/20/16 at 1:30 am to
This is actually a pretty unique and interesting situation where you don't need to maximize your points in order to give yourself the best chance at winning. You want to maximize the number of scenarios in which you win. At the beginning of a week, you want to start who will give you the most points. With the information you have going into Monday night, that is no longer true.

The injury concerns are irrelevant for this hypothetical. Let's assume they have an equal chance to get injured, because that's the spirit of the discussion. If you don't believe they have an equal chance of injury, replace them with people who do for the purpose of this train of thought.

I think you start the QB on the same team as the receiver. You need a point differential of 15.1 to lose, which is insanely hard to do. I would love for someone to see how often a receiver out scores their quarterback by 15. Would need to be an absolutely fricking monster game, with some added frickery of like a WR pass or reverse.

Basically, odds of receiver outscoring his own quarterback by 15 are significantly less than the odds of a receiver outscoring the other teams quarterback by 15 IMO. This is accessible data as well, so there is a statistically backed answer and I would be fricking shocked if starting the opposing quarterback is the right call.

The really interesting piece of information that someone with a lot of time or some solid data access/computing ability (likely both) could scrounge up would be the point differential where this is a 50/50 call.

Not surprised that everyone fell for this trap though. Conventional wisdom is a bitch.
This post was edited on 11/20/16 at 1:53 am
Posted by Vicks Kennel Club
29-24 #BlewDat
Member since Dec 2010
31266 posts
Posted on 11/20/16 at 8:09 am to
The question never said if it was standard or PPR. Since I play in PPR leagues, I answered it that way and it completely changes the answer.
Posted by rockchlkjayhku11
Cincinnati, OH
Member since Aug 2006
36821 posts
Posted on 11/20/16 at 11:02 am to
It changes the answer but my gut feeling is that a 15 point buffer means you'd still start the QB on the same team, even in PPR. The number of buffer points you'd need in PPR would definitely be greater than in standard, but that number still exists and is likely less than 15.
Posted by Vicks Kennel Club
29-24 #BlewDat
Member since Dec 2010
31266 posts
Posted on 11/20/16 at 11:19 am to
Siemian (left) vs. Thomas (right) this season:

I used PPR and four point passing TD's (I prefer six) to see if the gap can be made up.

9.1-8.8=.3 Siemian
11.3-16=4.7 Thomas
29-20=9 Siemian
6.7*-21.4= 14.7 Thomas (Siemian left early)
DNP-15.9=15.9 Thomas (Lynch was QB)
13.3-6.5=6.8 Siemian
10.2-16=5.8 Thomas
6.8-12.9=6.1 Thomas
15.3-10.6=4.7 Siemian
14.8-22.7=7.9 Thomas

Yeah, you are almost definitely safe with Siemian, but this below scenario can happen.

300 yards/2 TD/2 INT=16 points for Siemian
12/150/1=33 for Thomas
Posted by bulldog95
North Louisiana
Member since Jan 2011
21268 posts
Posted on 11/20/16 at 11:43 am to
DT. 15 catches 170 yards 1 TD =39 points

Siemian 23-30 250 yards 1td and 1int = 12 points

You lose by 12 points by starting siemian
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