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re: The civil suits on the Baldwin shooting are going to be EPIC!
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:39 am to theunknownknight
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:39 am to theunknownknight
quote:
Hollywood can have all the “rules” it likes, but at a certain point, those rules can’t protect them if we are talking about equal justice
1
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:39 am to OceanMan
quote:
We his is seriously baffling. A person died and there are plenty of people not criticizing the control design.
How often do people die based on the current design?
Do you believe they disregarded elements of that design?
If this is a case of them disregarding rules, and the crew being replaced for voicing concerns: is this a case of needing to rework the front end protocols or needing to rework how to report and respond to violations?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:40 am to baldona
quote:
If this is the case, it’s not acceptable but that’s fine.
But if that’s the case, again Baldwin holds some criminal responsibility as he fired the gun AT someone and as the owner of the production company and the actor pulling the trigger it would be impossible for him not to know this.
Fwiw, I’m not taking away blame from anyone on the crew. Imo multiple people screwed up, as is likely the case
Yeah, everyone has their role in this and AB failed at his. Armorer is TBD.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:40 am to Lsupimp
quote:
I don’t think other professions receive this same moral and legal absolution.
True.
Well, cops maybe but I imagine if a cop were this careless everyone would hate him.
Of course pop culture enthusiasts are fighting back.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:42 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Modern society would be demanding the cop be charged and some DA out there would try.
Well, cops maybe but I imagine if a cop were this careless everyone would hate him.
quote:Not surprising.
Of course pop culture enthusiasts are fighting back.
They worship these people.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Just how dense can you be, not to see what people have been clearly stating for 14 pages now? You are handed a gun, told it was "cold", meaning no rounds in it, blanks included. You check and see that it has cartridges in it. You hand it back to the armorer and inform them that it is not "cold". Or, you just take their word for it, pull the hammer back, pull the trigger, it goes bang, a person dies, a son loses a mother, and you have to live with that while being sued into bankruptcy.
a. I said I have no experience with 6-shooters
b. You didn't answer the question. The ammo would have to be removed fully, inspected fully (by the actor, alone), and then they'd have to call the armorer over to reload (because NOBODY on set gets to load other than the armorer). How is that done in "2 seconds"?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:42 am to OceanMan
quote:
These people should be trained in firearm safety, and should be the last line of defense in preventing accidents. This is demonstrated by the fact that someone died on set due to control failure. All of the controls that were put in place to mitigate the failure of the triggerman failed, not the other way around.
I’m not even saying I wouldn’t have checked the gun. If I was Alec Baldwin, I absolutely would have, and every time. But we’re not talking about what we would have done. We’re talking about liability. And on a film set, it sounds like there is a structure and protocol in place for just that, placing liability on one or a limited group of individuals.
And my contention is that adding more people as “controls” would lead to more accidents, not less. Matter of fact, I think a gun should only ever touch two people’s hands for a scene: the “expert” straight to the actor. Why were they ever just sitting on a cart.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:43 am to Scruffy
Scruffy- you are a doctor, no?
Do you have behaviors you engage in at work that would get others in trouble? Do you have industry standards protocols that if followed illustrate that you have properly eliminated risks even if a negative result happens? Is that the law protecting the medical elites? Or just an understanding that if acting at certain professional standards you are ok and if not you can kiss your protections goodbye?
Do you sample and test every medicine you administer or trust the stringent protocols in place?
Do you have behaviors you engage in at work that would get others in trouble? Do you have industry standards protocols that if followed illustrate that you have properly eliminated risks even if a negative result happens? Is that the law protecting the medical elites? Or just an understanding that if acting at certain professional standards you are ok and if not you can kiss your protections goodbye?
Do you sample and test every medicine you administer or trust the stringent protocols in place?
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 9:45 am
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:44 am to theunknownknight
quote:but It does though
I’m not going to speak to “Hollywood Protocol” as that doesn’t really mean anything in the real world once people die
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:45 am to Mufassa
quote:
And my contention is that adding more people as “controls” would lead to more accidents,
Absolutely incorrect. Good thing Airlines don't buy into this.
One more set of eyes checking the ammo has no negative value whatsoever.
Do you know what blanks look like?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:46 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Do you know what blanks look like?
Do children
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:47 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Absolutely incorrect. Good thing Airlines don't buy into this.
One more set of eyes checking the ammo has no negative value whatsoever.
Do you know what blanks look like?
To be fair, you don't want the baggage guy fricking around in the engine after the mechanic gets done with his inspection.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:47 am to NoSaint
quote:How do you have two accidental discharges under the supervision of a 24 year old armorer and not immediately suspend the use of weapons during production pending an investigation? That’s 100% on production. That girl had zero business working in her role and production was wholly negligent.
Had this been the first discharge issue on this set and the crew member hit was wearing proper gear and it was truly isolated to the armorer - Baldwin would be in good shape.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:48 am to NoSaint
quote:
Scruffy- you are a doctor, no?
Do you have behaviors you engage in at work that would get others in trouble? Do you have industry standards protocols that if followed illustrate that you have properly eliminated risks even if a negative result happens? Is that the law protecting the medical elites? Or just an understanding that if acting at certain professional standards you are ok and if not you can kiss your protections goodbye?
You’re comparing medical malpractice liability to this?
In Medicine, doctors HAVE to perform known risky procedures where the risks are reasonably known and understood by all parties. Further, Doctors are SUED often and some ARE arrested for malpractice so your point is moot anyway.
With this Baldwin situation, everything that happened was UNNECESSARY and by choice with clear and obvious corners being cut by the company he ran and owned.
This post was edited on 10/23/21 at 9:50 am
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:48 am to upgrayedd
quote:
you don't want the baggage guy fricking around in the engine
Looking at ammo isn't fricking around in the engine.
Its an observation and 100% harmless. At worst, you get corrected and everyone is safe.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:49 am to beaverfever
quote:
then the majority of the blame lies with production in my opinion.
For not firing (no pun intended) the armorer? I just don't understand why there would be a live round in a prop gun used in a movie. Was it an actual bullet that killed the cinematographer, or was it a projectile from a blank? Sounds to me like it was an actual live round if it when through one person then hit another. I was all set to blame this on Baldwin because I thought he was horsing around with the gun, but it sounds like he was given a freaking loaded gun prior to shooting the scene. I feel truly bad for him if this is the case.
I remember a similar incident happening at the LSP Training Academy when a trainee was killed after being shot at point-blank range.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Looking at ammo isn't fricking around in the engine.
Its an observation and 100% harmless. At worst, you get corrected and everyone is safe.
It requires manipulation of the weapon. A weapon that the armorer is 100% responsible for. I can completely understand why an armorer wouldn't want some dumbfrick soy sipping actor fricking with his weapon after he readies it.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:51 am to Geekboy
I thought Hollywood already had strict rules on weapons and filming.
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Good thing Airlines don't buy into this.
what Does the pilot go to jail if the mechanic fails to maintain the engine and the plane goes down?
Posted on 10/23/21 at 9:51 am to Mufassa
quote:
Matter of fact, I think a gun should only ever touch two people’s hands for a scene: the “expert” straight to the actor. Why were they ever just sitting on a cart.
If that’s the case that’s fine, but a perfectly reasonable protocol that takes almost no time is that AT the time of handing the gun over, the armorer shows the user that the gun is cleared and safe.
Simply announcing it is not acceptable. If you hand me a gun, fine, but show me it’s safe first. The actor doesn’t need to actually do the clearing themselves.
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