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re: Rick Perry pushing bill to test psychedelics on vets with PTSD***2nd update...it's law!
Posted on 4/14/21 at 6:58 pm to Wednesday
Posted on 4/14/21 at 6:58 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Can someone please explain why psychedelic drugs are helpful to someone suffering from PTSD- who by definition is already reliving painful past experiences, especially when triggered?
Because it alters consciousness in such a significant way, combined with counseling and other treatment modalities, the class of drugs showed potential (before the powers that be panicked/demonized/shut down the whole thing) back in the 1960s.
Now, to be fair, the recreational users did no one any favors by overdoing it and they are not completely safe. If someone has undiagnosed schizophrenia (the classic case is Pink Floyd founder Syd Barrett), then powerful psychedelics can do a lot of harm.
But, the way rich people dropped acid in the 1960s, for example, in a sort of "guided" trip is what they're talking about here, but instead of a recreational guide/safety valve, it's a psychologist or psychiatrist actively trying to work through mental health problems. As with any potent chemical, it is not without risks, but the demonization of them for any purpose is very short-sighted from a science standpoint.
I mean, you can get a prescription for cocaine for certain sinus/dental procedures and cocaine is way more dangerous than most psychedelics (assuming both used lightly to moderately).
1
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:01 pm to SOKAL
quote:
Unibomber.
Star graduate of the CIA’s Finishing School for Aspiring Anarchists. Thank you Deep State!
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:01 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Can someone please explain why psychedelic drugs are helpful to someone suffering from PTSD- who by definition is already reliving painful past experiences, especially when triggered?
Some classify something like ecstasy as a psychedelic. A lot of people hear ecstasy and assume it’s all constant positivity, but really your emotions can go some weird places. The thing is, there’s this background of contentment and euphoria that makes you incredibly able to mentally deal with any kind of thoughts that might come up. As far as something traditionally psychedelic, it sounds condescending but until you’ve experienced it you can’t really appreciate the profound gratitude for life it gives you
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:06 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Can someone please explain why psychedelic drugs are helpful to someone suffering from PTSD- who by definition is already reliving painful past experiences, especially when triggered?
Can someone please explain to me what business it is of the Feral Government what substances any consenting adult puts into their body?
N.B. I do not use psychoactive drugs nor do I advocate the use of such drugs.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:07 pm to Big Scrub TX
Should be giving them MDMA and definitely the herbanga
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:12 pm to VictoryHill
Good for you brother. These substances were put here by God and have been utilized for centuries in ceremonial events. There is plenty of evidence of the benefits of non-recreational use and the big pharama battle against their natural healing
powers, (not treating), but HEALING something, for a change.
powers, (not treating), but HEALING something, for a change.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:23 pm to Wednesday
quote:
Can someone please explain why psychedelic drugs are helpful to someone suffering from PTSD- who by definition is already reliving painful past experiences, especially when triggered?
LSD's first use was for alcoholism, which had a 96% success rate and without relapse after 6months, and soon after used to treat PTSD for military veterans. It wasn't until OLeary started mass production/use with his Harvard students that the FDA cut all funding.
LSD used in a controlled environment and low dosage historically has seen excellent results.m If you want to learn more I recommend Tom Shroder's book Acid Test
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:31 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
Because it alters consciousness in such a significant way, combined with counseling and other treatment modalities, the class of drugs showed potential (before the powers that be panicked/demonized/shut down the whole thing) back in the 1960s.
Now, to be fair, the recreational users did no one any favors by overdoing it and they are not completely safe. If someone has undiagnosed schizophrenia (the classic case is Pink Floyd founder Syd Barrett), then powerful psychedelics can do a lot of harm.
If it helps our vets - then go for it. But this seems a little counterintuitive to me. IOW - We’ve already seen what prescription medication can do, when abused. And if you’re already struggling, I worry if you’re ready for that kind of mind alteringness.
Plus, the idea of “experimenting” on our vets, just makes me nervous. I do love the idea that users can alter consciousness enough to free themselves of their demons. However, I’m not sure if escaping from the present moment is really ever the solution to dealing with it.
All that said, some kind of brainless moralizing to deal with a genuine medical problem isn’t the solution either. I simply would hate to see a bad situation made worse, and have the treatment be worse than the disease.
In another life I would be a therapist. The mind/body/spirit connection is everything. Would be wonderful to help people find happiness and peace.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:33 pm to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
Can someone please explain to me what business it is of the Feral Government what substances any consenting adult puts into their body?
None.
But if we’re healing our vets- let’s make sure we’re healing them.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:38 pm to Wednesday
quote:
We’ve already seen what prescription medication can do, when abused.
I don't think we can worry about "abuse" - I mean, cough medicine can be abused. Doesn't mean we don't prescribe cough medicine for folks who need it - in appropriate doses, at the appropriate time.
quote:
Plus, the idea of “experimenting” on our vets, just makes me nervous.
All investigational medical research ultimately involves "experimenting" on people, generally with their consent. It makes sense to focus on areas with the greatest potential for benefit because that at least justifies the risk the most. Ideally, you have safety information from animal studies before you go whole hog on people, but there is probably enough anecdotal data from experienced recreational users and data from the time before it was illegal (European and American research from the 1950s and 1960s particularly) to have a decent safety starting point.
And, of course, just go slowly at first. This is actually a pro (real) science position. I'm generally pro (real) science in these situations.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 7:39 pm
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:43 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
PTSD is often the result of a brain injury.
Huh? Trauma is the operative word here lol. Real or perceived threat of death, experienced personally or witnessed first hand.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 7:47 pm to Espritdescorps
quote:
Real or perceived threat of death, experienced personally or witnessed first hand.
Other than "death", I think you're spot on. Lesser trauma/threats of trauma can also result in PTSD.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:04 pm to Espritdescorps
It makes sense to me, but the argument is that PTSD describes a cluster of symptoms that stem from a brain injury.
Shellshock was a really accurate description for it, in retrospect. Soldiers were suffering brain injuries from the concussive blasts of incoming artillery.
Shellshock was a really accurate description for it, in retrospect. Soldiers were suffering brain injuries from the concussive blasts of incoming artillery.
This post was edited on 4/14/21 at 8:05 pm
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:17 pm to Wednesday
Tim Ferriss discusses this with some knowledgeable folks in several of his podcasts. If you really want to know more, that might be a good way to get a lot of info on the topic without having to weed through a lot of internet junk.
I don't think the idea is so much to "experiment" on our vets. It's more like these are experimental treatments that has shown quite a bit of promise, enough to feel optimistic enthusiasm on the topic.
I don't think the idea is so much to "experiment" on our vets. It's more like these are experimental treatments that has shown quite a bit of promise, enough to feel optimistic enthusiasm on the topic.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:41 pm to Big Scrub TX
Rick Perry's right on this one. We are already using Ketamine for Complex Regional Pain Syndrome and intransigent depression at the VA. In a controlled setting, I could see where the use of psychodelics can potentially reset the ACTH axis (neural pathway for regulating stress response) in PTSD patients.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:44 pm to Big Scrub TX
Uh oh Big Shroom got to him too
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:44 pm to Pooturd
quote:
Unpopular opinion around here but a lot of y’all are as insufferable as covid nurses
There's a lot of difference between the two. How many covid nurses have seen bodies blown apart? Go frick yourself.
Posted on 4/14/21 at 8:53 pm to Big Scrub TX
For anyone that's interested, this is a clip from a wartime journalist who has dealt with this stemming from his experiences in Iraq. I hadn't heard of the treatment before when I listened to episode a few years ago.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 4/14/21 at 9:08 pm to JT
I will Check it out. Thank you
Posted on 4/14/21 at 9:57 pm to Wednesday
quote:
None.
But if we’re healing our vets- let’s make sure we’re healing them.
Again, I’m not arguing for or against the use of any such form of drug therapy but rather saying that choice should be left to the individual and his/her doctor.
With that said, I would argue that mescaline or cannabinoids can’t be any more harmful than the dire side effects widely associated with many of the SSRI class of antidepressants approved by the FDA and regularly prescribed by the VA.
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