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re: I read a lot on here from the other side that hates Trump

Posted on 2/7/21 at 2:55 am to
Posted by Xenos
Member since Jan 2021
26 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 2:55 am to
quote:

He may not have been perfect throughout his life. EVERY human being on this earth (including me and you) has not done things to where we can say I don’t hold any regrets to my past. People can change. I did the older I got and I don’t consider myself old just yet.



I honestly do not believe most people (Democrats included) expect perfection from anyone. The reason why Trump gets a certain amount of character assassination is not due to his actions, but the portrayal other people have given him.

There are those people (not sure if you are one of them) who treat Trump like he is the second coming of Christ, and I state that with little exaggeration. Certain people point out he defends Christianity, knowing that in the past he has had at least 2 affairs and cheat on his (at the time) wives.

I am not saying a person can't change. Anyone can ask God for forgiveness and do better. But at the same time, it isn't right to just pretend a person didn't do bad things because it is politically convenient. This is not to mention some of his other shady business deals (Trump University, Trump Casinos, Trump Steaks, etc).

quote:

What the forefathers did getting out of the European Model 250+ years ago so that we would not have to live under a one rule of government. Yet, we are now being dumbasses (almost a majority here in the United States it seems, wanting to adopt to go right back what the forefathers wanted to get out of which is the European Model). In the past four years Trump actually tried to prevent this from happening. Decisions voting left actually expedites this movement towards the European Model and many other countries with the Biden policies. The United States is being fused “or will be” in the next 15-20 years a one world government if we do not change the path we are headed under the current administration. Not a United States government, but a world government that is not controlled by We The People.


Again, I believe their is a misunderstanding being perpetuated by right-wing forces in the media regarding European government. Americans do not want to lose their Constitutional rights. They simply want the benefits that European and Nordic countries have. Our Western allies have a universal form of healthcare. A welfare program designed specifically for only those who desperately need it. Wages that keep up with the rate of inflation in their local economies. And heres the deal... contrary to right-wing consensus, none of the countries that have these programs are "Socialist" nor are they failing economically like Venezuela.

If you go by Fox News logic, then the U.K., France, and Germany are all socialist. Funny how they never bring those countries up in the conversation. Social programs with specific goals =/= socialist government.

quote:

Most (EXCLUDING a few countries China, Iran,) of the world looks at the United States to lead and be a example.


They do look at the U.S. to be an example. And plenty of them wonder why the U.S. is the richest country in the world, but doesnt have a system in place for the health care of its citizens. And no, I dont expect anyone to feel obligated to do something for me or others. However, your tax dollars are going to be taken regardless of whatever your political ideology is. And they will be used for whatever purpose the government sees fit, and as is often the case with Omnibus packages, it is spent on multiple things you are not going to like.

In other countries, they dont appease everybody, but they believe if they are going to get taxed anyway it may as well go back to the citizens in some form (healthcare, etc.)

quote:

Trump is not against The People whether you are Republican, Democratic, Liberal.


I believe this concern is born from the rhetoric he uses. You and many conservatives just tune out his rhetoric (for whatever your reasons are) but you can't expect some people to take offense or at the very minimum wish he was tactful in his approach.

Ill be the first to admit the media isnt always fair and for Trump they seriously went after him. However, some problems could have been mitigated if he just chose his words more carefully (like literally every other politician). Im not saying dont be honest, but dont give people a reason to attack you.

You or I, when out in public are accountable for what we say. Why is that off-limits for any politician, Democrat or Republican.

quote:

The thing that scares me most is the younger generation is being programmed how to not think for themselves. That is very telling of what the future may hold if we as a country, not change the course in which it seems we are headed.


I agree with this. The problem is that they are too easily influenced by celebrities and so-called influencers of the world. This has to lead to cultural rot as they believe they have to pretend to be like X in order to be something. We all know that celebrities live in leftist bubbles are what they sell is an illusion.
Posted by davyjones
NELA
Member since Feb 2019
30400 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 3:25 am to
I'll admit, there's a tone of reason and patience in your post that's not often seen when posters of opposing political tastes carry on a discussion here. Kudos for that, seriously.

I only wanna make one point, and then I'm outta the way. JMO of course, but Trump is the way Trump is in terms of political speak and tone exactly proportionally due to the speak and tone directed at him. You did touch on it re: unfairness towards Trump by media et al, and I sense what level of that you're intimating which is perfectly within your prerogative, but will come as no surprise that my view of it's that he's been treated as badly as most every nearly every President before him.....in history. Incomprehensible ill will towards him. Again, I know you will differ.

Already long story short, Trump would have been an absolute sweetheart of a guy had his foes set even half that tone with him. Put it this way: however courteous and polite and respectful they would've treated him, he'd have responded with about 2 levels higher than that in return. His level of rhetoric was simply a survival mechanism.

Dang. Yep I know, tl;dr
Posted by chili pup
Member since Sep 2011
3033 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 3:47 am to
Can I ask a question Xenos? This is all a actual conversation which I want to have with you.
This post was edited on 2/7/21 at 3:56 am
Posted by Imposter
Member since Feb 2021
52 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 6:16 am to
quote:

Americans do not want to lose their Constitutional rights



Your post was done in a reasonable way and tone so I don't mean this as a personal shot at you but I think this part of your comment needs to be contradicted. I'm sure leftists don't want their rights taken away but they would gladly see conservatives rights stripped.

For example, both the 1st and 2nd Amendments are constitutional rights and the left wing is chomping at the bit to see them taken away from conservative Americans.

So yeah, I'm sure leftists see their rights as special and untouchable but they no doubt see conservatives rights as expendable. And that's just freakin sick
This post was edited on 2/7/21 at 6:17 am
Posted by Nguyener
Kame House
Member since Mar 2013
20603 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 6:31 am to
quote:

Americans do not want to lose their Constitutional rights


There is absolutely a giant section of our society begging to lose their constitutional rights. Hate speech laws, gun bans, cancel culture, etc

quote:

They simply want the benefits that European and Nordic countries have. Our Western allies have a universal form of healthcare. A welfare program designed specifically for only those who desperately need it. Wages that keep up with the rate of inflation in their local economies.


America has one of the largest welfare programs in human history. What are you talking about? specifically what do those countries provide that we don’t? What welfare programs do we not have? What exactly is universal healthcare and how does America not afford it but other countries do? Please tell me specifically.

You’re under the impression that America doesn’t have a welfare system? No country can just afford to pay a full living wage and all costs for an entire segment of the population that contributes nothing by choice.

You know what else those countries have? Strict immigration laws, border enforcement, and government control of individual life. You cannot have an enormous welfare system and no immigration policy or government forced control.

Further, America is the third most populated country on earth. A European country doesn’t make the list until Germany at 19 with 1/4 of the population we have. A Nordic country doesn’t make the list until the 70s and 80s with less than 1/10 our population.

quote:

And plenty of them wonder why the U.S. is the richest country in the world, but doesnt have a system in place for the health care of its citizens


Again please define exactly what more America should be doing? What is it that you think America doesn’t provide?
This post was edited on 2/7/21 at 6:47 am
Posted by Cajun Tigah
Tennessee Mountains
Member since Jan 2005
4025 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 7:54 am to
quote:

They simply want the benefits that European and Nordic countries have. Our Western allies have a universal form of healthcare. A welfare program designed specifically for only those who desperately need it. Wages that keep up with the rate of inflation in their local economies


Let’s just forget that all of this is unconstitutional.
Posted by alphaandomega
Tuscaloosa-Here to Serve
Member since Aug 2012
13687 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 8:40 am to
quote:

There are those people (not sure if you are one of them) who treat Trump like he is the second coming of Christ, and I state that with little exaggeration. Certain people point out he defends Christianity, knowing that in the past he has had at least 2 affairs and cheat on his (at the time) wives.


I could care less about Trumps affairs, tweets, or pussy grabbing. He put forth policies that were designed to help the American worker. And it was successful. Growing economy across all demographics. Record stock market. Record low unemployment.

And biden has done nothing, absolutely nothing to help the average American. As a matter of fact all of his EO have hurt us.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57453 posts
Posted on 2/7/21 at 8:49 am to
quote:

Xenos
I like your post.

quote:

Americans do not want to lose their Constitutional rights.
Many America’s are simply birds searching for a cage. There are many that would absolutely welcome “Hate speech” laws, government censorship of “right-wing” POV, and many other things.

Te right isn’t much better. Why the seem to value their rights: the only rights you keep are the ones you’re willing to fight (politically) for.

quote:

They simply want the benefits that European and Nordic countries have.
Yes, but this is an ignorant point of view for most. They do not understand the costs thst come along with those “benefits”.

People believe they’d be OK with european levels of taxation. But we’re already almost there for most of the “middle” class—and we have massive deficits.

We’d need taxation rates approaching 60-70% (at the federal level) to make even basic universal services work. And not just on “the rich”. down to e $50k per year levels.

Think people making $50k/yr want to pay $30k/yr (plush payroll taxes and local) in taxes? I don’t.

But they are being fed the lie that everything can be paid for by “the rich”.
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